U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

July 21, 1998

Graham Marsh

GRAHAM MARSH: Not really. When you get to our age, it's pretty much the same every year. So I wouldn't say that there's been any dramatic changes to my life. Probably a little more recognizable by some of the golf fans in the country. And certainly the biggest support I had from most of the tournaments s that I've been to since that time has been very, very nice and warm and just a nice feeling to be -- to have won the title.

GRAHAM MARSH: Well, normally at the start of the year you -- I've always tried to peak my game to certain times of the year. Now, as it turns out the -- I try to peak at -- around the PGA Championship, PGA Tradition and again here at the Open and Senior Open and at the TPC; and the best laid plans go astray from time to time. But it just seems that U.S. Senior Open is one that I've been lucky enough for my game to peak at the right time and there's a certain amount of luck involved when you're having injuries or whatever it may be at the time. Like I said the best laid plans go astray. And everyone's trying to win this week just the same as we were a few weeks ago at Dearborn. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. For me, it's happened and I think perhaps also the style of golf courses that we play for the U.S. Senior Open are more conducive to my game than the style that we play at the British and the PGA and at Dearborn TPC.

GRAHAM MARSH: Well, I think the golf course is in wonderful conditions. You couldn't plain about the way that -- the way that it's setup. It was interesting to play Olympia Fields last year and then here, and then earlier on a year or two to go to the Olympic Club because -- just to see the way that they change it to the U.S. Open as compared to the U.S. Senior Open. And certainly the driving areas are much more generous here and receptive. It's an excellent driver's golf course but it also -- phases somebody that can hit it long and straight here. If you have a long ball here you can move it out there some distance I think that -- that -- you can hit it straight. It's going to be an enormous advantage around here this week. It seems to -- but guys like Gil Morgan are at the Top 10 of my list as far as being potential witnesses.

GRAHAM MARSH: Well, the three courses that we play are all on Nicklaus courses. And Nicklaus courses tend to favor the player that can hit the ball high, very high coming into those greens, but high with long irons and that hasn't been my game over the years. I guess having been raised in Australia and raised on links golf, we tend to keep the ball down much more. That's the way I've learned to play the game and I just don't have that shot often enough in my bag to play those golf courses.

GRAHAM MARSH: I played it once in an L.A. Open in 1977 and somebody told me the other day that I finished fifth. But I don't -- maybe I did -- tied or 5th or tied for 7th or something like that. But I believe I finished in the Top 10 on the one outing I had here on this golf course.

GRAHAM MARSH: Somebody else asked me that the other day and I thought back and I probably remembered something like about ten holes, some of the Par 4's down there over by the real estate, I didn't really recall them when I played them again yesterday. Obviously 6, 1, 18 are the holes that really stand out in your mind. 2, I didn't remember but the long par 3, 4, 6 I remembered. And there are good couple in the middle, 17 I remembered. So there are a few of the Par 4's that are kind of average type holes, very good holes, but not with distinctive features -- I'd forgotten about.

GRAHAM MARSH: Just clarify that. The point that you're really trying to get to is?

GRAHAM MARSH: With the amount of golf that -- that is played in the world today, particularly in the group of players that are playing here, I think every one of them has had enormous experience playing internationally. And I don't think that you could say that there's an advantage one way or another. I would say that Olympia Fields last year, of all the Open courses that I've played since being here, that one was set up I think in the nature of the golf courses, the culmination of the two, the nature of the golf course and the setup was probably the most difficult and it required probably the most patience. It was -- really defensive golf in the true sense of the word. And I believe that we probably have played international -- the players have probably played a little bit more defensive golf than the American players. But I would not say that would be the case here. In fact, would I say this week with the American players would have a huge advantage because they have played here and they have known Riviera over the years and they know many more of the subtleties of the golf course; whereas, when we played at Olympia Fields last year, we all started from scratch. Very few people have played that golf course.

GRAHAM MARSH: I think regardless who's been playing well, I think knocking at the door all year is David Graham and he is the kind of player -- he's very long off the tee and straight; good iron player and if he has his putting game with him this week, I would suggest that he's a real threat around here.

GRAHAM MARSH: The other player that comes to mind just off the top of the head being around that hasn't played great all year but he's been around in a couple of tournaments is Hugh Baiocchi.

GRAHAM MARSH: If I had to pick a man right now, Gil's been in form. There's a huge advantage -- you see if you look to the golf course from the way that it's set up from the two players that we have on the tour that are playing the best, Morgan and the Irwin. Morgan has the advantage here because of his length. Irwin has an advantage here because of his great iron play. But where I think -- and I'm not saying that Hale can't win the Championship. We know that it's probably going to come down to the putter anyway. But Gil on almost all par 4s is going to be going in with relatively short clubs to those greens and. I think that he'll carry -- Hale tends to do a little bit -- drive a little bit the same way that I do get it on line and sort of run it down there as well. There's not a tremendous amount of run in these -- in kikuyu grass. Gil has an enormous carry through the air. And there's -- he's going to use some pretty short clubs to some of these greens and that's going to be a huge plus for him.

GRAHAM MARSH: Yeah, it becomes a little bit of cliche to say it gets down to putting. If you don't bring your putting game with you on a particular week you can finish well. But it's on a golf course like this it's probably unlikely that you're going to win. You have to make putts to win championships. And you know that Hale is a great putter but even for Hale to win, he has to make clutch putts. He has to hole a few of the long ones. If he wants to get the number of birdies on the board that it's going to take to be there. Now, this golf course is going to give some birdies away this week unless they get very, very cute with the pins and unless they make the greens absolutely rock hard. Now, I don't think either of those two things are going to happen. It may get a little cute with the pins but I don't think the greens are probably going to get rock hard. So you're going to be able to attack the pins in some instances and that's where Gil is going to have an advantage I think because he's going to be attacking with much shorter irons. Now, whether he makes the critical putts, I mean having got himself into that position is the determining factor. So in this case if he putts well this week, he's going to be very hard to beat. That's why I say it gets down to putting. That's what I say when you look at the board and you turn on the TV on the last few holes on Sunday and see the guys in the top five or six. It's not a reflection of how the guy putted all week. It's a reflection of what is happened the last four or five holes. So bringing your putting game with you means bringing it from -- from the first hole of the golf tournament.

GRAHAM MARSH: Not with as much confidence. Last year, I had one coming in here, beating Hale at the Nationwide Championship. The last couple of weeks -- I played poorly at the TPC. Not too bad the week before that and reasonably well last week, except for a high score on one hole. So confidence is -- is gaining but it's not at the same peak that it was this time last year. However, every week's a new week and I believe that my ball striking is starting to come back and my putting hasn't been all that far away. It hasn't been -- it's been hard to get a true reflection on my putting because I've been hitting my iron shots so far from the hole. So it's been mainly two putts, two putts. You need to get the ball reasonably close to the hole with your iron shots if you're going to start to make birdie. And if I can do that, then I feel like I've got some kind of chance.

GRAHAM MARSH: You have to rate Jack's chances as being extremely high. The thing that I guess is important with Jack these days is how well his hip is doing. Everyone sort of imagines this as being a relatively flat golf course but by the time you walk down through some of those drainage pits and so forth, it's quite a big walk out here and walking on kiyuki grass, let me tell you, it's much more difficult. It's like walking on a mattress. These fairways are quite lush, not firm, a little soft and there will be players that will feel it in their legs here this week. And I just would wonder about Jack's health in terms of how his hip is going to hold up for the whole week and that I think is a fairly critical factor for him right now. You asked whether he's got a chance. The answer, of course, is yes.

GRAHAM MARSH: Well, I would give myself a reasonable chance for playing well here. Whether it's going to be good enough to win, I don't know. I think that given the way that I've been playing this year, it's -- winning often comes from the confidence of playing several weeks well, and then all of the sudden it's pretty much like you're ready to win and I haven't had that experience. I haven't been close enough, maybe just on two or three occasions. So my confidence is not right there. However, if I was to get myself into a position to win, I'm hungry enough to win. So I would feel like I'm -- I've got some kind of chance.

GRAHAM MARSH: No, it's foreign to you because I came from South Africa. That is where it originally came from. All of our courses in Australia are and the same in western Australia. It's very hardy grass. The roots just go down forever. It's the hardest grass in the world to kill. However, it's not unfamiliar to me in any shape or form.

GRAHAM MARSH: No.

GRAHAM MARSH: Exactly.

GRAHAM MARSH: When you're playing a U.S. Senior Open, I -- I don't think now that we've -- at this stage at our career I think when you're first introduced to the game and you see -- you play in your first couple of Open Championships, I think there is an adjustment to be made because everything is so different. When I look at this golf course this week, okay, there's some heavy rough in someplaces. In other places, it's fairly sparse. So I don't get the feeling that this golf course is set up in the same way that some U.S. Open or U.S. Senior Open golf courses have been set up. It doesn't give you that visual appearance the same way. If you compare this to say San Francisco or even if you compare this to, I think, maybe Olympia Fields last year where I believe the rough was a little longer and more consistent in places and the greens were quite firm and moved very, very fast. That doesn't give this appearance in this case. Now I know that it's early in the week and I know that it can get up. And this is such a very good test of golf anyway that it probably doesn't need that. And particularly for senior golfers. So I think we've all been out here. We've played in many an Open Championships. We've played in the British Open and all those Championships. I think as time goes on, we're aware -- as time goes on you're aware that it's more important but I don't think you make huge adjustments.

GRAHAM MARSH: Initially from just one practice round, this golf course I believe is going to handle a more aggressive approach. There's no doubt about that. If you asked me, okay, what is the winning score going to be around here this week, last year I would have said if you had even par I'd take it and be very happy. In hindsight sure, 20/20 vision. Here I don't think even par is going to win. I think it will take under par to win this golf tour. And I think maybe the way Gil and Hale have been playing that year it could be as low as 10-under-par.

GRAHAM MARSH: No, I don't think it's wrong to keep talking about them. There are -- you have to -- the way that those two players have played this year, the scores they have shot, it's hard not to talk about those two players. They have really played some kind of golf. I think the score that they both shot at the TPC was marvelous. The Tradition, the PGA, the scores there have been fantastic. They are not the only players that can win around here. But when you look at what has transpired over the course of the last seven months, it's -- the score that Gil shot in some of the other events and Hale shot in some of the other events, it's very hard to look beyond them and say well, the other players are the favorites. So if you're coming back to favorites, which is really where most of the questions have been directed, you have to look to those two. There are other players. I'd suggest that David Graham is capable of winning. He's a foreign player. I suggest Hugh Baiocchi could do it. I certainly believe a guy like Jay Sigel could win. He's a great driver of the golf ball and he's -- he's been playing well this year. You could pick another, I think, five or six players that are capable of winning. But if you're asking who the favorites are, you've got to run with those two guys.

GRAHAM MARSH: Well, I don't think Hale and Gil are going to give up their -- what their enjoying right now all that easily. Historically, as far as I've been looking at the Senior Tour, every time a quality player comes onto the tour, they have dominated for a couple of years. I think it's fair to say that when Arnold did it, he played very well in the early days. Remember when Peter Thomson came over and, played he won nine times. You could say that the quality of play is different there. But everybody has improved and everything has become better and the standards have gone up on the Senior Tour. Larry Nelson is making a big move and he's another player that could win the Championship, make no mistake about that. So you know, you can pick these -- pick these names. All of the quality players that have come off the regular tour, I can't think of one that hasn't done well in these first couple of years out there. You get tackled in the competitive scene. Now, Johnny Miller, for example, hasn't he tackled in the competitive Senior Tour. Dave Stockton when he first came out, look when he did. Bob Charles, Bruce Crampton, all quality players that all did extremely well and that is going to be the pattern. But the other -- it doesn't mean to say that they are going to come out and win everything. Now, Hale hasn't won everything. He's had to share it with Gil and he's going to have to share it with Larry Nelson and so forth. But that's been the pattern of the Senior Tour. So I don't see anything unusual in that.

GRAHAM MARSH: Well, I guess I was probably -- I'm probably kind of in the middle of that, you know, between the shift of where it's all taken place and I suppose you could say that everybody was in that -- has been in that position at some stage. But the feedback that I -- I get from the younger players is that there is less camaraderie on the regular Tour than what there is on the Senior Tour and I suppose as a group that comes through from the junior Tour, that they have lived their lives not having -- having that camaraderie there. I suppose when they got on to the Senior Tour, nothing very much is going to change for them. I've never tried to separate, you know, the golf from the people. I've always tried to keep a nice balance between friendship and competitiveness. I guess some people don't quite see it that way, but that's their style. But some of the older players would say it's changed with less camaraderie out here now. But everything changes so I don't know whether that's for better or for worse.

LES UNGER: Good luck. Thank you.