FORD SENIOR PLAYERS CHAMPIONSHIP

June 22, 1999

Allen Doyle

ALLEN DOYLE: I feel fine. I got home and I was concerned because I was, you know, in some pain. But the doctor said it was just a bad strain of the back, and that I needed some rest and so I took off the whole week of Nashville and started hitting balls at the beginning of last week and I feel pretty good now. So I hope it's in the past. I don't know what caused it. I don't know what -- I don't have an idea of what inflamed it on Friday and Saturday. So I'm a hundred percent, I hope. I'm not a hundred percent playingwise, because normally when I take off, I don't play as little golf as I ended up playing. But, you know, I hope to get up here and bang some balls and get into a rhythm and hopefully play well.

ALLEN DOYLE: I think it's a good golf course. I think you have to drive it, you know, pretty good. You're going to have to hit your irons good, and you're going to have to putt good. I think it's a complete course. You've got some holes out there where it's either very tight and you've got some greens that you hit into. Got some trouble around them. I don't know what's won here in the past. But, you know, I have to believe that whoever has won has had to play -- has had to do an awful lot of things right. And it's in great shape.

ALLEN DOYLE: If someone had told me at the beginning of the year that I would be in the middle of the June and I would have won a million something, I'd have -- I would have suggested they be committed maybe. And you know, it's hard to know without, you know, it was hard for me to know how I could do out here. Other than having the feeling that I thought I could do okay. So, you know, when you look on what's happened, you know, I -- it's just been phenomenal for me. I could have had a great round at the end of the PGA Seniors there, the fourth round and still not won and I could have shot 5-, or 6-under and had a great tournament and not won. I had a helluva chance of not winning in the NFL because of the way I felt, and, you know, so I don't think I'm that far removed from just being one of the other guys out here that's won just one time. You know, you see, the Open last week and you know it's not. It has not been easy. You know, because you stand on the first tee on the last day in each event that I won and you wonder if you can win, even though you've won in the past. And then at the end of the day, when you have won, you say, well, you know I played well and I deserved to win. But then on the weeks that you don't, something didn't go as right as some other weeks. I'm just thrilled beyond words to have kind of a small pot of the -- you know, the new names out here, and I don't think that this is something that you're going to see -- that it won't happen more regularly than it has in the past. I think it will happen more and more, you know, as guys, as they get more serious, in their late 40s, about the opportunity that they have out here.

ALLEN DOYLE: I don't think you'll ever see that completely, but you're going to see more and more guys.

ALLEN DOYLE: So-called unknowns. You know, you prepared a little harder in your late 40s, and your mindset is a little different. You might be a little more hungry. I don't know how hungry Tom Kite's won $13 million. I don't know how much he's got in his bank account, but -- how hungry is a guy like that going to be, as compared to a bruise Fleisher or an Allen Doyle or a Jim Thorpe or whoever. You know, I think we've worked a little harder. Our motivation is a little bit stronger. I think you'll see more and more of that coming out of TOUR school than you have in the past, maybe.

ALLEN DOYLE: How hungry are guys that have made millions and millions of dollars? If I was in their boat and I was a Lenny Watkins and I had won 20 times on TOUR, and was one of the exceptional players in terms of 20 wins; there aren't too many guys that have played the TOUR for -- in any amount of time that have won 20 times. How hungry is he? I mean, I know they will tell you that they want to do well, and everything and they are going to play hard. But how hungry are they, really, as compared to myself and old Bruce or guys that have an opportunity? This is not an opportunity for them to make more money than they have made, where it was for us.

ALLEN DOYLE: That might be.

ALLEN DOYLE: That might be. See, again, it's not an opportunity for them. They have already had their opportunity and made, you know -- I'm not so sure if I had $10 million in the bank that I'd be as hungry as -- as I am today or that I want to be away from home as much. So, you know I think a lot has to do with the desire that you have when you come out here.

ALLEN DOYLE: Everybody has something that they, you know, some guys maybe would stay home -- whatever they would do in the yard. And some people, they go to a quiet place. You know, you hear that a lot of players fish and they let loose and relax. That's what I've always kind of done. I've always had to be somewhat busy. I don't kill time well. And that's a place last week where we ripped out the insides of the big building, because I had it on the back and I was tearing down walls and my doctor found out I was laying carpet, he wasn't real pleased. But he didn't say anything about laying carpet. He just said: Don't hit any balls. I didn't hit any balls. I never felt any strain on it; so, you know, as soon as I would have, I would have -- you know, and I was putting ice on it each night. So I don't view that as anything odd, only because, you know, people hang out places. You know, I happen to have a place that I own and that I -- you know, it's a driving range where I hang out. Some guys go to the club and hang out and play cards.

ALLEN DOYLE: I think it's a good golf course. I think you're going to have to drive it good. You're going to have to hit a lot of good irons and I think it will be -- I think it will be a real test.

ALLEN DOYLE: I don't know how it would be controversial. I remember seeing it on TV some, but I don't -- I hit a drive out there. And it's a good thing I played a little right, because I was about 140 yards from the front. It surprised me that I was as far off the tee as I was. You know, every course has to have -- have a hole that, you know, kind of stands out. I'm sure if you were back there with a 4- or 5-iron -- I remember seeing on TV -- you know, it could be an intimidating shot into the green. I'm sure I'll be like everybody, bailing out 50 feet right.

ALLEN DOYLE: Yeah.

ALLEN DOYLE: I'd have to think about it, because I didn't think I could advance the drive.

ALLEN DOYLE: I just saw 440, and it looked like I have a lot of room out there. You know, I try to hit driver everywhere I can, you know, because I don't hit it as far as some people, but I can hit it pretty straight. But I'd have to think about it, and especially if you've got any down breeze. I would not have to get mine too much left and I'd have been -- I'd have been in the hazard. But a course ought to have holes that are unique and an event ought to like those things, because a lot of times it defines who wins and who doesn't win. So I don't have any problem -- I don't think it's a funky hole at all. Some places have those funky holes that define the course, and sometimes the tournament, who wins, but that to me is just -- you've got to hit a pretty good drive and you're going to have to hit a pretty good iron.

ALLEN DOYLE: Well, I didn't know, really. I was -- you know I was -- I've always been the type that I don't -- I came here, and I didn't say anything. And I just kind of, you know, I teed it up and played a round of practice and went back to the room and came back the next day and teed it up. You know, I didn't know what to expect. I was not -- I was not going to come out here and have a mindset that I was going to -- that I was going to cripple myself, you know, in terms of the burning in the gut or a certain amount of money. Because I was coming to an unknown place, and the only thing I was going to worry about was making good golf shots; you know, see what happened. I felt I could -- you know I felt I could finish without any trouble. They talk about top 31, the guys that finish 32 to 50, not in that bad of shape. So I was looking, I guess -- I was pretty sure that I could finish between 5 and 50. But I didn't want to be too keyed up, and I didn't want to be trying too hard and I didn't want to be bearing down too much that I hurt my -- hurt myself more than I helped myself. I think I did that my couple years on TOUR. I knew I didn't have much time. It seemed every round if I got off to a good start, I was -- I wasn't just worrying about making the shots, as compared to a round at the age where I won for the first time, I just -- shot after shot after shot, I worried at about the shot at hand. On the TOUR, if I got 3-under after 6 or whatever, I would be the -- you know, if the week prior, if I got too aggressive and blew it, which I did enough of, I would try to be too commercial and blow it the same way. I never found a groove out there, because I was more worried about what I was shooting than how I was trying to hit the golf shots.

ALLEN DOYLE: I didn't know how that would play out, though. I knew that I didn't think I could keep playing amateur golf and keep my game -- you know, keep driving and keep working hard at my game. I would have been going back to places that I had -- I had won and, you know, how hard you work when you have three weeks before the -- which I've won a record number of times, I could see myself getting caught up at the range and stocking tomorrow; and tomorrow is the next day and tomorrow is the next day, I've still got to weeks; I've got time. I was afraid, not that I would get complacent, but that I would not work as hard. But I didn't know -- in '95, I had no place to play when I did decide to turn pro. You know, I more or less was thinking that, you know, would I just work hard and practice hard. When 50 came, I didn't realize what would happen between 47 and 50. Yeah, that was my mindset was to work hard prior to coming out here.

ALLEN DOYLE: Not until 42, 3, 4, something like that. When I saw that the TOUR was continuing to grow. You know, when Jay Siegel as an amateur, we had no one, you know, to kind of follow out here. We had no one that we could gauge what he had done. And I could have said: Well, yeah, I did, you know, that well, where he had no one up till him that turned at 50 and did well. Once he did that, you know, then I felt it was realistic for me that I could turn and hopefully do that.

ALLEN DOYLE: Just one Open.

ALLEN DOYLE: Not much of a gauge. And, you know, at the TOUR the last few years, now if someone would have a gauge for Lenny and for Tom. It's hard to be out there in your late 40s playing against those guys. You know, I could look now and I could say I made more cuts than Lenny did and make more cuts than Tom has. I could look back now and, you know, say -- you don't careerwise compare yourself with Kite and Watkins at 47, 48, 49. But even if I did, I was a better 47, 48, 49-year-old player than they might be. I would rather -- if I had an option, I would rather have done what they did in their 30s as compare to their late 40s. But it wasn't until Siegel that we had -- that an amateur had a gauge of what we could potentially do out here.

ALLEN DOYLE: Wealthwise, yeah. I had no chance, other than everybody else going and buying a lottery ticket each week or each day. That was more than likely the only way that I was going to make any substantial sum of money in the next how many years. So wealthwise, I didn't need this to be, you know, to see my name in print or to, you know, to get pats on the back or anything. Was this was a chance for me to, in effect, win the lottery almost.

ALLEN DOYLE: No. Because I don't think I was that much of a long shot. Although, I may have played it off maybe as being one so I didn't draw too much attention to myself, and I could kind of stay in the background and just play. You know, I never felt I was a long shot. I felt that after Jay came out and did well, you know, that this was something that was attainable to me. Not that I would attain it.

ALLEN DOYLE: Oh, yeah.

ALLEN DOYLE: Not that I ever did. We're in a small town. I did it because when I got up in the morning, it was a great place to go -- go to work. We're in a community that we liked. I could have moved and gone on and made more money, and it still would not have been in the sums that a successful insurance guy would do, like Jay. It just was something that, I know, my girls were around the game and they worked at the driving range. It was a way that they could be exposed to the game and to work and it was something that I loved doing. It was something that enabled me to pursue my hobby in the way I did. But I never made a whole lot of dough doing this.

ALLEN DOYLE: I wanted to be -- I guess if I was not going to be a professional, I mean, I had the opportunity to be a good amateur player.

ALLEN DOYLE: But I don't feel I would have accomplished -- you know, I mean it's a small thing, and it was a small thing at the time. But in Georgia, I was somewhat of a -- the huge name in Georgia. Again, that wasn't, it, would be like if one of you people in whatever city or state you were born in, you had received awards for -- you know for writing and you were so well known in your state. And someone would have said: Oh, why don't you go to California when you had the chance to go to make a national type of thing. Well, gee, I like it here. I'm well known here. I'm settled here. I would move for anything.

ALLEN DOYLE: I could have done the same thing. Many I day, I would get calls from people that wanted to bring me places to hustle. You know that's something that I wouldn't do because I was -- and I truly could have done it. I could have shown up at most places and just cleaned clock. They would have chuckled at me, but my reputation was more important than money. I understand what you're saying, but I was pursuing that -- money isn't that important to me. What I made this year, the majority of it's been paid to Uncle Sam or I'm investing it. I don't need it, other than if I want to get something, I could. It was just a way that I was -- it was a way that I chose to be different. I chose that route and, you know, I always -- once I started doing well, you know winning State Amateurs, when I won three, had I turned pro and do what you're talking about, or I try to win fourth and no one had one five, of I have five and then I win; try do that then when I won five or do I try to win one more to win a six. Same thing, the national level, when I got playing, it seemed when I thought about doing something like that -- see, I accomplished a little more each year. And then I kind of said: Well, now I've got the opportunity to do a little more to take one more step to distinguish me, and that's what I did.

ALLEN DOYLE: I had an understanding wife. And she never put the screws to me that she needed more money. I was fortunate, not that would have changed anything I would have done, because it wouldn't have more than likely, but I was fortunate I did have that.

ALLEN DOYLE: I think if you looked at me and I gave you an honest answer to that, it would come from everything I had done, everything I started late. With hockey, my brother started playing first, and he was about 4th or 5th grade. And then when he started, then my father realized there was some other age brackets, and I was in eighth grade or whatever it was. So I had a late start there and, you know, I was always behind the eight ball. Same thing in golf. I've always been behind -- more so in golf. Talentwise, I didn't play as a junior. I wasn't playing as a junior. They got the no-tournament golf. Especially in golf, everywhere I showed up, I was -- I was kind of chuckled at. Which is no big deal, but so maybe I did have a little more to prove than the next day. Because bottom line, I've said this before, I'll probably say it a hundred more -- a thousand more times. See, some of you up on the first tee you'll see on Thursday, and he could snap-hook the ball into 18. And he could just say, it's a bad shot. If I get up and do that: How the hell did this guy do that. You say to yourself: Well, you know, why should I be held to a higher standard, you know, than everybody else in the field because their swing looked good. It's been that kind of thing that I've always had to shoot a score -- I've always had to finish a concern standing. For someone to go after the fact -- because if I teed off the 1st hole and I won the tournament the prior year that, you know, they would say this must have been a fluke, and they are going to follow someone else. And when they got through they would say, what did he shoot the guy that won it last year; and they look and say well, you know. So I think it's that kind of thing and I think it's just, you know, it's experience. It's wanting to do well. For years, I was -- as I said, I was dismissed that I couldn't play. So maybe I'm a little more determined to show that, you know, that I can. I'll still have the same problem ten years from now if I'm playing. If I get up on 1 tee and snap-hook it and they say: How did he say here this long --

ALLEN DOYLE: The swing. Style. I get no style points. I get minus style points. They see me, and believe me. It's funny. My wife will tells me things and my girls will tell me things. And my dad, my family will tell me things that the fans will say.

ALLEN DOYLE: It's very hard and very short and fast.

ALLEN DOYLE: Yeah. Slap shot. It's comical to hear them relay the stories of people, the fans, talking about, you know, that guy. But it doesn't bother me at all because the bottom line is the score.

ALLEN DOYLE: They could not here, because he had a great career. And I think the more I'm around, and the more I am around -- and I haven't been around here long. But places that I have played a lot, then the more you see it, the more it doesn't look as bad.

ALLEN DOYLE: I would teach it. I tried to today with that -- what's that -- natural golf is a lot like that. It's the short back swing. The Mo Norman kind of thing. I don't know if he's still affiliated with them. It's that kind of thing. And what they are trying to teach is hit it and play; hit it straight.

ALLEN DOYLE: And your scores will reflect that kind of mindset and that kind of game. And that's what they teach. But still, for the first time, it looks -- it looked odd.

ALLEN DOYLE: Well now it's been more often.

ALLEN DOYLE: Before that in amateur golf, you never had any press conferences. You know, the local TV would speak to you before you played to ask you how you felt, and, you know, what kind of shape the golf course was in.

ALLEN DOYLE: Until 46.

ALLEN DOYLE: To the age of 46.

ALLEN DOYLE: Well, the practice makes it work. I've grooved it. I developed it. I can't tell you exactly. I can give you two or three things. The hockey played a big part in it because, you know, you have to have strong hands, arms and legs to make that swing work. My mindset as a kid was, you know, I if I could shoot par golf, I could do okay around the state of Massachusetts. I caddied as a kid and I saw everybody couldn't score because they were spraying it all over the joint. They couldn't find it. I said: Geez, if I could hit it down the middle -- if you had a pretty good short game, then could you score pretty good.

ALLEN DOYLE: That was my mindset. Then in the winters, when we got through playing hockey and we couldn't play golf because the snow was still in the ground, I would go down in the cellar in a low-ceiling basement and I would (indicating swing) I would make that swing for hours.

ALLEN DOYLE: It was a combination of those things. And I had people then telling me, the assistant pros who I caddie and said: If you ever want to make anything of yourself, you want to change your swing. When he said that, I kind of chuckled to myself and said: One, he can't beat me. So how the hell could he be dispensing knowledge to me about how I should play? Two, I never thought I was -- I wasn't going anywhere in the game, other than to try to be competitive around the area. That's all I was thinking about. I had an Army commitment to do when I got out of college. I wasn't thinking about turning pro. I was shooting pretty good golf. I was a good player in the state, and then in my late teens. I had it all then. And I was well thought of in the state as a player. You know, I had it all. Or so I thought. And I did at the time.

ALLEN DOYLE: I probably would be one of those guys. I can think back and every time I've won, even when I've gotten through sometimes, wondered how I won. But if you look, you know, at most events -- most times, it's not so much who ends up winning the tournament. It's who ends up losing, or not winning the tournament, but shots that they try to make. You know, moves that they try to pull off that don't. I'm not so sure that a lot of times -- when I won in New Jersey, I made one birdie that day. But I didn't make a bogey. Now, it happened the guy I'm playing in the playoffs, he makes a bogey.

ALLEN DOYLE: Well, you know, I'd have to say a guy like Trevino, probably.

ALLEN DOYLE: The way he accomplished -- what he accomplished.

ALLEN DOYLE: And how he did it, would probably be a real good pick for me.

ALLEN DOYLE: That would be someone that I could relate to.

ALLEN DOYLE: I said last week or the week before that I honestly believe, and I think what I have had is somewhere in my body, I've got a stupid bone there. And for some -- but it's held me in good stead because with as many people have thought that I should not ever have won anything; and for the number of times that I've probably been told that, you know, I didn't listen. For some reason, and I've always felt that it's a stupid bone in there that we all have to have when you're told you're not a good writer; you're not a good manager; not a good father or whatever; or you're not good enough; that you have to be just dumb enough that you don't believe them.

ALLEN DOYLE: If I made 30,000 a year, that was a good year.

ALLEN DOYLE: My wife worked. And she does something she loved doing; so it wasn't something that, you know, she was forced to do.

ALLEN DOYLE: I don't think someone like Bruce or I will ever be, no matter what we do, will be the people out here. Because you know, for too long -- and that's the way it's -- that's the way I think it's supposed to be. And I have no problem with that. But for too long a time to not come out and watch Trevino and Jack, how do you not? More than likely, like in Philly, if he played like he did in Philly, why wouldn't you follow him rather than Bruce? You've got the leading money winner on the TOUR, and you've got his first event with a new hip. He obviously won't probably compete for the championship, but if I'm going to follow someone, it's probably not going to be Bruce or me. It's going to be him. You know, because of his annointed greatness. And I think someone like myself or Bruce will have to be doing something like what they are doing for multiple years.

ALLEN DOYLE: Yeah.

ALLEN DOYLE: We all find our niche. And I've had people say: That's the way I swing. And they are coming out, you know, to get some little hint of something. And, you know, if you get through and they stop and ask you, you know, what could I do, you know to hit it close to what you hit. You know, you don't tell them: Hitting a thousand balls a day. That would be the first thing. You'd say, blah, blah, blah. But I don't think you ever find a game -- they follow Chi Chi. Why do they follow Chi Chi? Why do they follow Lee? Why do they follow Jack? Why do they follow Arnie? Last year in L.A. at Wilshire, we're on the driving range going off the third-to-last group or whatever, and he's coming down 16. Well, he must -- there must be every spectator on the golf course, you know, is out watching Arnie, and he's shooting 77. And here you've got the lead groups ready to go off.

ALLEN DOYLE: But he is who he is. If again, if I'm a fan, I'm going to go out and follow him. And when I'm through following him. If I'm going to stay all day, then I'll go watch, you know, whoever, be it Bruce or myself or whoever. And that's just the way it is. But yeah, we had more people following us now than I did at Key Biscayne. I had my father, a friend of his and one other guy. On Thursday, we might have 10 times that amount.

ALLEN DOYLE: Like now, but I don't have -- see it's so easy to fit time in. I would probably have gone back to the motel a half hour early today if I did my thing without doing this, I'm back in the motel at 3:00 instead of 3:30. No, I don't watch Oprah, but I watch whatever. So you're killing time so you've got all the time in the world when you're out here. You know it's almost a pleasant thing that you've got more time, more things to do.

ALLEN DOYLE: I didn't know a lot of these guys. Someone said to me: They said, if you keep winning, a lot of these guys, they aren't going to be your friends. Well, they weren't to begin with. I didn't know them prior to this year. I'd like to leave here being well-liked, and that's not a goal of mine, but it's nice thing to be liked anymore people than don't like you. But if that's the case, then so be it. I didn't have friends before I came out here and when they are not my friend when I leave, I have not lost anything. But the majority of the guys are good fellows. We have a good time. They treat me well.