U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

June 27, 1995

Hale Irwin

HALE IRWIN: I don't know. I guess I am at the age where you don't remember if there is or not. I like being the youngest player of course. That means everybody out there is older than me. Therefore, I am more enthusiastic; therefore I am better looking and smarter. You are typing all this down, right? I think the rookie part has some application because you are in a different arena. It is a different format, not so much this week but the regular season. I don't remember events, and things are a little different. It is not the same as -- it is not worse than it is not better than. It is just different than the regular Tour events. So there is a learning curve, and I really refer to it more as a comfort level that you find to be the greater challenge; right now it is to find that comfort level and that is keyed in large part by my own schedule; how much I am playing on this Tour versus the regular Tour for the remainder of'95.

HALE IRWIN: Well, as -- the changes that have been made here I think have all been good changes. There is enough of sight line from where you are playing your ball to the green or to your target area, to satisfy, I think, most people. It is not -- the course itself, architecturally, as much as I think the conditions of the greens are going to be, in this week, probably going to be the hot topic of conversation. But as far as the fairways, they are in marvelous shape; the golf course lays out very nicely. The bunker sand is new which is unfortunate. It seems to be very soft; so there is going to be an awful lot of -- you can't be in the bunkers this week let us put it in that way. There is going to be some difficulty. It is playing quite long right now for a course, what is it, 6700 or something like that?

HALE IRWIN: 69 -- it is going to play quite long with the rains we have had and soft conditions, it is going to play very long, I think for a Senior Championship.

HALE IRWIN: At this moment I'm hardly an expert. This is only my third week; I am still a rookie.

HALE IRWIN: I don't think we would blame it on the rainfall. I got here yesterday morning; it hadn't rained, well, it rained Sunday night. I don't know about the rain. I don't know anything about that. The root structure just is not very deep. I don't think that has anything to do directly related to it -- I don't know. I would be curious to find out what the problem is, was, will continue to be or not be - I don't know. But it is going to be a problem when you putt them - I know that. There is going to be some -- maybe we should go spikeless this week. Maybe you should champion the cause of spikeless shoes, boy, I'd do it.

HALE IRWIN: Well, fall down a couple of times you have to putt over some of those craters going to be a lot better than spike marks.

HALE IRWIN: Pretty close. Which is a record for me, I think.

HALE IRWIN: I think it is really the way the tournaments have fallen. For instance, U.S. Open how it fell with my schedule prior to that, the only tournament -- Atlanta last week, the main reason I was going to play there is our daughter lives in Atlanta. It would have been a nice tournament to play in and see her. Nashville before that was due in large part, I got to thinking - two reasons, BellSouth is now a sponsor of mine and secondly, I thought wouldn't it be nice to have another tournament under my belt before I got to the Senior Open. And in retrospect I am glad that happened. But now you start tacking on the Ford Seniors in another couple of weeks, you start talking about other events that -- and all of a sudden you are seven, eight, nine weeks and I don't know -- that is not me. I am not happy with that. But again, I refer to it as a window of opportunity is short lived on the Senior Tour, and I think this is a time period which it is an exciting time period. My choices are all very positive and I am very thankful for that. It is not as if I am looking at two difficult choices in the negative; I am looking at good choices that are positive in their orientation. So I am very happy with the way things are going. It is just unfortunate that it is all sort of right together.

HALE IRWIN: I don't know. I don't know about next week. The one thing that I started the year was the Ryder Cup. I really wanted to play well enough to get on the Ryder Cup Team. That looks as if that is not going to happen. My best shot now is at best to be a long shot would be a Captain's pick; and that is a long shot. I am not holding out any great hopes that that will happen. I think there is some other players that are playing well, and I just have to play well and see what Lennie decides to do. Then, PGA Championship, but as it stands right now, I haven't made enough money on their selection process in which to know that I am going to be in the PGA. I wasn't aware of that until a couple of weeks ago; I kind of thought I was in.

HALE IRWIN: I am in now as we speak but the way the money is, I could probably fall out of that, so I may.

HALE IRWIN: I may have to play there, so again, that is adding on to an already very hectic schedule. Yeah, I am thinking "Is all this worth it? What is the use of going out" let's say the Western, going up there and playing tired against the world's best players, you know, so I just don't know. I don't know how I am going to decide that, but I certainly -- if I am going to play in the Western, I have to decide by Friday. But then British too, you throw that one on; that is another one.

HALE IRWIN: Tired of talking about this.

HALE IRWIN: As we speak now.

HALE IRWIN: Yeah.

HALE IRWIN: It's a long journey and -- I am not used to this. I am just not used to playing these many tournaments in a row.

HALE IRWIN: Recent 3, maybe 4, but I am scratching my head to think of that. I think it is 3. I felt like one of the positives of my career has been -- I have been able to play one or two in a row and go home for a while. I keep my interest up. I keep myself fresh. So when I am playing, I am playing effectively. And I am playing effectively now but how long will that last? And there is a difference. A Senior Tour event doesn't take the physical toll on you the way -- nor the mental, really, like a regular Tour would be. You do have the opportunity to ride, if you wish. I haven't been riding on than between the green and tee. But it is three days. You do ride the Pro Am, so it is not like you are expending as much energy, so you can probably play a bit more on the Senior Tour and not have that letdown that the regular Tour gives you.

HALE IRWIN: Of course. You can't go into any tournament anymore thinking automatically that you are going to be there on Sunday, although, if you are thinking about making cuts; then you are probably not going to be making cuts.

HALE IRWIN: It is something to think about. Certainly, it affects your schedule planning more than it does the actual playing. I don't think -- I don't think I played any differently whether if I have had a high score or a low score on Thursday. I am still trying to play well enough to get to Sunday. I am trying to play myself back to contingent.

HALE IRWIN: It is just --.

HALE IRWIN: That is what I am talking about with that comfort zone. It is a lot easier; it is something that you just have to kind of get used to and you can get used to it fairly quickly on the Senior Tour, but I think sometimes you lose an edge by that comfort level too. Because there is a number of guys that play the Senior Tour that can play effectively on the regular Tour. They can still play golf. But there is that edge that you lose whether it comes from comfort level; whether it is the competition; whether it is three days versus four; I don't know what that is. I am still trying to learn it myself.

HALE IRWIN: The courses that I have played lately going back to Shinnecock and Memorial, it is all favored to the long hitter. You have had the rain, the soft conditions; you have had the very long conditions. All of those things that just fall into the lap of the long player. And that is to their advantage. I am not knocking that. That is just the way it goes. But it is unfortunate that if the greens are as they are, because I think it does level out the field. We are all going to look silly on some of these putts. There is not one player in this field that is going to hit every short putt and make every short putt. I think we are going to miss very short putts. And that will take its toll.

HALE IRWIN: (nodding head affirmatively).

HALE IRWIN:. (Nodding head affirmatively.)

HALE IRWIN: Again, I don't know what the problem is. It is unfortunate that it has happened. But these are -- these are going to spike up more so than Southern Hills, but again the time of year Southern Hills is, August a lot of stress. We haven't really got into the heat stress where that would happen here; something in construction -- something in their mix, I don't know, I don't know what it is. You have to ask those people that do know. The USGA is supposed to have credentials for that.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I have said before that it is a little bit like having two good friends with two different personalities. The senior players, you know, I am still repeating what others have told me. I am not certain that they are entirely correct, but probably so. That it's more laid back. Well, I am not so certain it is laid back as much as it is -- again you refer to that comfort, that is what I can see. I can see the guys are comfortable in knowing they are in town for X number of days. They know that they are going to -- they don't have to make a cut. They know that they can ride if they want to. It is an easier way to go about doing what they do. But I think the trade off is that you lose that sharpness and that is something that Nicklaus told me. I can see where you can do that. You can get yourself -- if you play a lot of the Senior Tour events and think you are going to step on the regular Tour you have got another thing coming because over a period of time it is not going to happen over one, two weeks but over a period of time you get comfortable; just as I am comfortable playing the regular Tour and not real comfortable here, the flip can be the case. You can get comfortable here; then you go to the regular Tour and you are playing against more players; the starting field is larger; not referring to this week, but the normal -- the more players consequently there are more good players and you just have more players to beat, so it becomes sort of the small fish in the big pond or the big fish in the small pond or something like that. You can't necessarily take your skills from the Senior Tour to the regular Tour and you can't necessarily take the feeling -- you can take the skills maybe from the regular to the Senior, but it is a different environment. It is a different personality. I know on the regular Tour no one smokes a cigar. You walk in the senior locker room and you choke to death.

HALE IRWIN: On the Senior Tour?

HALE IRWIN: I think there is some mellowing. The intensity is just not quite as much. I think the intensity for some people is what keeps their game sharp. There is obviously a point in time of which you just no matter how the intensity -- going to lose some skills, but I am not so sure that I would go out and say they are nicer. I think there are some awfully nice people on the regular Tour. I think you make it what you want to make it. I have got some great friends that are over there on the regular Tour. And that I have some great friends on the Senior Tour, but I would stop short of saying they are nicer, I think.

HALE IRWIN: Well, yeah, I suppose, you can always back out of it and say there are some guys. But I just think it is just a different environment: You have got a younger crowd. Transportation here, yesterday picking up a car I saw all the car seats. I said, "Who in the hell are these car seats for?" their grandkids. On the regular Tour it is for their kids. There is a difference right there; what family you might have around. It is like when I am around on the regular Tour with the wives and all those kids, I think, geez, I got to get away from this and go find some peace and quiet somewhere. All of that has a little bit of bearing on that part of the Tour versus the other part. And it is just all sort of adds up to just different personalities. That is what I think comes that once you understand that new friends -- once you understand who the officials are, you know, I know most of them, but there are some guys that you have to learn who the officials are.

HALE IRWIN: Again after two weeks, I hardly know what the formula is. But Brian Henninger (phonetic) told me in Nashville that the par -- these will not not play over 200 yards, the par fours will not play over 430 and the fives will be whatever distance they are. Well, I know some pretty darn good holes that are 110 yards, 120 yards, but the two weeks I have played, it seems like I have hit a 5-iron on every par 3. That could be coincidence; I don't know. And although there are holes that, you know, you can place a ball here 400 yards long that are very long. You can play some holes that are 450 that are not that long. I am not certain that the yardage thing is all that critical. It is however it is set up. I don't -- I have been a champion of the more difficult setup for years, so I am not playing a new tune when I say I like to see them play to where par really is a good score. I have always championed that setup. Hence why I have always liked U.S. Open kinds of golf courses and setup, I like to see the players go out there and use their skills to play good golf. I am not for a person that thinks good golf necessarily has to be 66 or 67; 5, 6, under par. I think good golf is good shot making and if you can return the score that is par, maybe a little under par, that is good playing.

HALE IRWIN: A little bit. I have the difficult part -- I don't generally try to go out and lead after the first, you know. But you do have to get a quicker start. I am finding that you do have to go out and -- I am not so sure that it is playing aggressively because the Senior Tour pin positions that I have seen are not as difficult as regular Tour, so I think between the combination of shorter golf courses -- albeit they are not pitch and putt courses I have seen in three weeks now. They are not pitch and putt, you do have to hit some longer shots, but you don't have to hit as many of them. The pin positions that I have seen in my first two senior events are easier, considerably easier than what we have found on the regular Tour.

HALE IRWIN: Yes.

HALE IRWIN: I don't know what it means. It is two weeks all I can say is when you are out there and you are trying to plan, execute a golf shot with a lot of trouble on one side and the pin is right next to it, you'd really better think how to get in there. But if the pin is not there, then you don't have to think quite so hard. That is where the difference is. And it is not the players are going to be embarrassed. It is just that I think it takes some skills to do that. If your skills are not as good as they once were, I don't think there is any embarrassment in that. I mean that is what I kind of heard the players don't want to be embarrassed. Well I don't think you embarrass yourself by playing golf I think it is just the nature of the game. Anyway, I am sure I am swimming uphill on that one.