U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

June 24, 1997

Hale Irwin

HALE IRWIN: Okay. Whatever. I think this year has certainly been a great start. The fact that I've had four wins thus far -- it's been a great year. You know, I had a good week last week. There's been a focused attention on my part to this week. Whether or not there will be some success, I can't speak to that. I hope to. This is one of those tournaments in which I would dearly love to win, to be the U.S. Open -- former U.S. Open Champion, as well as a U.S. Senior Open Champion, something I would very much like to do. One of the reasons -- not the only reason certainly, but one of the reasons I played two weeks ago at Congressional was to try and prepare myself for the kind of environment that this tournament has in terms of the rough. This rough is not as difficult as Congressional, but it's -- it gives you the same preparation. The idea of ball in fairway, ball in the green. The idea that par is a good score, not necessarily the best score I think that will be shot this week, but it's a good score, and to kind of test my game two weeks ago in preparation for this event. Then last week was to kind of pick up the pieces from what was left of Congressional and try to put them together, again, in preparation for this week. So I think I've had enough preparation. I'm fully ready to try and have another good week, and with that in mind, I'm anxious to get started.

HALE IRWIN: Yes, we could temper that 2-under-par on the back 9 with 15 over on the front 9. So it wasn't that I left -- or take away. I took away a lot of good thoughts as to how I can finish. Still, I have to resolve how I get started? Congressional did -- the front 9 gave me more difficulty for some reason. I don't know why. I just could not seem to get out of the box. As I say that, I birdied the first hole Friday and Saturday, but both days I double-bogeyed the 2nd hole right away, so I never stood on the 4th tee any day when I wasn't over par. And that's a lot of golf ahead of you on that golf course. So -- and the fact that I was standing there with a lot of golf and over par and not finishing badly from that point on, that was encouraging. Congressional is not an easy course. This is not going to be an easy golf course. It's a tight-driving course, a lot of bunkering, especially it's pinching very tightly in the driving areas. But I think that preparation of two weeks ago and the execution of last week where I started driving the ball much better is going to be helpful. Whether I can execute or not, that's another matter altogether. But taking away from Congressional the fact that I could put it together and play that back 9 going down the stretch, that's what I'm taking away from there.

HALE IRWIN: Well, very important. Because I think -- I was not playing terribly well going into Congressional. I was off, and with the length of that course and the shot requirements that Congressional demanded, I wasn't entirely satisfied with the way I was playing. But, the golf course made you make mistakes. Last week was the way in which I kind of pulled together all of those pieces of the puzzle and started putting them back together again. And that, I did. The one piece of the puzzle that's still a little bit elusive, as it has been for the last couple months, has been my putting, but that's coming around. I feel much better about that right now, and I think I'm starting to see some results, and a lot of my putting through the years has always been right up here (indicating). My whole game is pretty much predicated on how well I'm thinking. And I'm starting to feel more comfortable around the greens. I've been chipping all right. It's just my putting distancewise, my distance has been very poor. You know, I might be 2-feet short. Same putt the next hole, I might be 4-feet past. I'm just having a difficult time with that distance. But it's coming around nicely.

HALE IRWIN: The rough here is not as penalizing as Congressional, no. It doesn't have the height -- the thing about Congressional that was so difficult is that whether it be right off the tee, off the fairway or off the green, you had a consistent height of, whatever it was, 4 to 6 inches. I didn't take my yardstick out to measure it, but it was, whatever it was, was enough to give you problems. Here, it's not as thick, nor as high. That's not to say that you're not going to have some difficulty in pitching the ball or hitting to these greens because they're not that easy to hit to even if you've got a fairly decent lie, you've got a flyer - and so far these greens are not soft - the ball is bouncing and going forward. And, if it rains, which, you know, it looks like we might have a bit of that, then it will make it a bit easier, but it will also make the rough a little thicker. It's not as penalizing as Congressional, no. And the course is not as long, so it's -- I don't know if this is as -- it's going to be, I think, for a Senior event, it's certainly going to be one of the tougher events that we play. We're not accustomed to seeing this kind of rough.

HALE IRWIN: Well, Dave played, Dave Stockton. The advantage that we might have is just from what I've been talking about, having played recently under conditions that are more demanding than we might ordinarily find. You cannot compare this golf course with Congressional. They're two different golf courses, two different kinds of golf courses, prepared somewhat differently. But still, the bottom line is you have to drive the ball in the fairway, and you have to put it on the green, and then you have to go about your business making some putts. That is the one singular theme that applies to both golf courses and both tournaments. The USGA prepares the courses similarly, and with that in mind, I think that experience is what will carry over for the three of us.

HALE IRWIN: Could they have an Open here?

HALE IRWIN: I don't know. Could they have an Open here? You wear the shirt.

HALE IRWIN: One of the things about courses like this that are a bit -- have been around awhile is they don't have the length that some of the courses now have. Whether Congressional is the course that we should look at now as Open standards or not, I don't know. That was a very long golf course, I think under anyone's estimation. But, as far as the ball is traveling and the equipment now, technology certainly is playing a very integral part in how we play the game and what courses can now be selected to be in those rotations. And I would suspect that the USGA has got some problems when looking at some of the older venues, not just from the golf course, but where do you park the people, how do you get the logistics of a championship, how they meet with that venue? This is a very nice golf course; it probably could. There's some fantastic holes out there. Whether it could house a regular Open, I don't know. Let's see how this week goes. At the end of the week see how -- it would be nice to be staying a little bit closer than where we are and not having to fight all the traffic, but that's not always one of the prerequisites when having an Open Championship, it seems. There are a lot of things that go into it. You'd have to talk to the executive committee on what their criteria are, but this is a very nice golf course, and I think we're going to enjoy playing here.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I was very surprised. Certainly, I don't have the details of it. I intend to try and get a hold of Jim, see how he's doing. I think his -- certainly there has to be -- something had to have been planned for awhile and no one knew about it. I wish him well. I really do. He's one of those people that's very competitive and combative, and I think he'll be the kind of person that he can come back from whatever problems. I don't know the extent of it. I'm just assuming, like many of us, that it's caught early enough to be corrected. I don't know. I guess I'm looking for some help here. I really don't know, other than he's had surgery, prostate surgery, is what I hear, which --

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think when you start talking about players that are 50 or older, you really -- conditioning does become a part of it. You can be 25 years old and walk around Congressional in 95 degree heat and fall over. It doesn't matter. It's difficult, yes. I don't think we're going to see this heat all week. From what I understand, we're not. But, I don't mind it. I relish it. I like to see it. It's not because I think I have a distinct advantage over someone else, I just enjoy it. I like the heat. I like to sweat. I mean, I looked like I was leaking oil awhile ago, but it does not bother me the way, let's say, the reverse does. If we were to have very cool weather, that would affect me more than the heat. But that's always been my MO.

HALE IRWIN: It's an average day in St. Louis.

HALE IRWIN: Well, the USGA I think has a mandate that they're going to try to produce the player that's playing the best golf. And that's the way it should be. I don't argue difficult conditions. I applaud difficult conditions. Now, the -- is there some gray in there? Certainly there's some gray. Is there some interpretation there? Certainly there's some interpretation. But the end of the week, you have -- you've exacted from the players all that they have that week. And that's what we should have. Now, whether or not you put the pin here or there or there or put the tees here, that's really, I think, a day-to-day kind of proposition. Whether or not the pin positions and tees are already thought of regardless of wind conditions, that's a day-to-day thing. I don't know how they do it. I've never been invited into an executive committee session on that. I would like to be a fly on the wall sometimes, but at the same time, it's important to demand the best from the best players. And I think we saw that at Congressional, certainly. We saw the best players for the week coming down the stretch playing a very difficult golf course, producing some pretty exciting golf. Those of us who couldn't match that pace were back in the back as it should have been. But, no, I don't -- I would rather err on the side of difficult than err on the side of easy. I just think we owe the game that, considering all the things that we have going for us. We have such good ergonomics now, such great putting surfaces. Everything is so good, the technology and the equipment is so good. We've got to keep the integrity of the game somewhere intact. And I think that's what they're trying to do.

HALE IRWIN: Well, certainly the atmosphere is different. It's -- different people, different -- it's just different. Every venue, whether it be a Senior Open or the venue at Cantebury, for a Senior Open is different than here. The atmosphere is different. You just have different personalities of the clubs and of the cities in which you go. So, everything is a little bit different now. From a personal perspective, I don't look at it any differently than the desire to win any other championship. The intent is to play as well as I can and to get into contention on the last nine holes. That's always the case. This has a special significance to me, as I've already said. I would love to be one of those winners that can be on both trophies, and unfortunately at 52, you look and say, well, can I continue playing as long and be competitive on the Senior Tour as I was on the regular Tour, being competitive? So there is a little bit of urgency, I think in the fact that your -- the time left to play the kind of golf you're capable, you hope to be able to play is a little shorter than if you were 25 years old playing.

HALE IRWIN: Would I trade, no. I wouldn't trade my -- any title for anything. Those Open titles are extremely important, and they've really helped define and put parameters to my career and a lot of depth to my career, and I'm very proud of those. I wouldn't change them for anything.

HALE IRWIN: These are just my slippers. Yeah, I play in these all the time. They're comfortable. I enjoy wearing them. The spikeless shoe.

HALE IRWIN: No. For years at home when I would play at home and practice, I would wear just the teaching shoes, so this is a bonus, having a little -- whether it be this or another kind of spike, I think they've certainly improved the putting surfaces that we play on. That's the general idea is across America, I think, is to start looking at spikeless as the way to go.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I played 11 holes yesterday and I played back whenever we played the Western here, and I don't remember anything about it. So it was essentially a new golf course. I had -- I could not remember the holes back in the back 9. I don't know if they were the back 9 way back when or whatever, but there's some really good holes over there. Some very narrow holes, some strategic holes. The surprising part to me is how well we're going to have to drive it. There is some very tight-driving areas, and there might be more than one or two occasions where a driver might not be the club of choice. I know in my bag, as much as I like to hit a driver and can hit the driver relatively straight, I'm not going to be hitting a driver on every hole. So I think it really comes down to how the wind -- I think the wind here is going to have a major factor in scoring and how you play each hole. If we have some severe weather or if we have mild weather, it's going to change the complexity of each hole. Just playing the last hole yesterday when I played, I hit a -- what did I hit? -- a driver and a 5-iron or something. Today I hit a driver and a 2-iron. And if the wind turns around and comes behind us, it could be something else altogether.

HALE IRWIN: It's not fear. I think awareness, certainly. My father died from prostate cancer, so I am very aware of the effects of what that can do. And I do keep up with my checkups. And, you know, as Arnie said, everybody should. And hopefully Jim is going to be fine, as is Arnie, and can help carry that message. But, those that think it can't happen to them, I feel sorry for them because it can. But I think it certainly brings an awareness factor.