U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

July 26, 1998

Hale Irwin

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think the -- I am very excited. Maybe another descriptive word would be "Very proud" of the way it ended. Coming back from where I was to win; the manner in which I did, I am very proud of that. Proving at least to myself that you can dig your way out of a hole if you just have the belief in it and have a plan of going about it. As I have mentioned all week, I didn't want to get hung up in the bad things that were happening. I wanted to steer clear of that and concentrate on the good things. This course is too hard. It played -- it was a supreme challenge for all of us. You can take the best players in the world, we are going to have a tough time out there. The preparation for this course, as I think I mentioned yesterday, is right up there at any of the other major championships on any Tour that I have played. We had very benign weather, so to Riviera and to those who prepared it the way they did, my hat is off to you for a fantastic job and the preparation for this Championship was superb. I guess, all and all, I am delighted; I am excited to add this tournament to the other Opens. Certainly does not put an end to my career, but it kind of puts a stamp of where I have been trying to get to at with at least those Open Championships and I am very proud of that.

HALE IRWIN: Descriptively, the 1st hole I hit a 3-iron to the left of the green into the kikuyu. I was probably 60 feet from the hole. I knocked it out of there about 15 feet from the hole, making that for an opening birdie. I won't go into little shots off the edge of the green, if you don't mind, just move onto the 7th hole where I birdied, hitting a 7-iron to within a foot of the hole. I had a good birdie putt at 8 from about twelve feet, which I missed, and the same putt at 9 which I missed a couple of opportunities there which got away and then, silly of all sillies, both Raymond and myself missed the green to the right with our second shots on No. 10, the most inexcusable lack of concentration on the part of both of us. And we both made bogey. Then I pulled my drive left at 11, hit the trees, fell down into the grass where I just chopped it out short of the ditch, hitting a 4-wood just up short of the green and 2-putting for a 5. 12, I hit a great shot. Hit a 6-iron, little 6-iron just played sort of a little under roll-back to the pin and I rolled it back there to about seven feet from the hole, missed that putt. Drove it in the right rough at 13, and hit it short of the green and made bogey. At that time Fernandez was at 2-under. I think he had just birdied 16. Ray and I both went to 3-over. We both bogeyed there. I hit a 7-iron at 16 and as Ray and I were both on the same line, he -- just a few inches past my ball, and I recall having made that putt at some point in the past in the L.A. Open, and I kind of felt like it one of those positive thoughts and I got a good read off of Raymond's line. And I just finally made a putt from about 25 feet to get into a tie. It was such a great putt at 17. I couldn't believe it didn't go in, but you know, that be as it may, 18, I hit a fantastic drive. I was 196 to the hole. The choice was either take a hard 5-iron and try to hit a hook back to the pin or just take a 4-iron and take a little bit off of it, try to hit it real high and just take it right at the pin, so it won't come in too hot. I opted for the 4-iron - struck it about as pure as I have struck many shots this week. The putt was from about twelve feet; was dead straight. That is what scared me. I couldn't see any break. I wanted to see a break. You just can't believe greens around here have straight putts. But once I got that belief in my mind, I was excited. My heart was thumping and all that stuff, but I did find that inner-calm of confidence, I guess, that all I need to do is get this on line and it should get to the hole because it was downhill. And I suppose a couple of feet from the hole, I knew it was in, but I waited for a couple of more rolls before I got a little excited.

HALE IRWIN: Well, again, we are doing the apples-and-oranges thing. Each of the three Opens were fantastic. Each had their own drama in some sort of way. They each came at a time period in my career that was important. The first win at Winged Foot was kind of: Hey, I am a major championship winner. The one in 79 was kind of that stamp: I can do it again. 90, of course, was in many peoples' eyes was sort of the resurrection of a career. Then this is, I guess, meant more to me because I wanted to be one of those few that did both. I have always held the Open Championships in high regard. And, they are the most critical test that we face as players in the major championship rotation. I am very proud of the way I played and I am delighted the way the course was prepared. I know many players didn't care for it. But I think that is the separation that you have to be able to take your game out there and make it work under these types of conditions.

HALE IRWIN: You and Mike have been talking about the 77. I have tried to forget it and you keep wanting to talk about it. Simply, there was nothing about the 77 that was worthy of any conversation. It was poor driving. I was poor irons, and on top of that, it was poor putting. So the best thing I determined was really not to talk about it. Not -- and no other reason other than that it was going to be flushed from my mind and that is what I tried to do. I wasn't so far out of it that a couple of rounds under par - and I believe I have said this - that I had to have a couple of rounds in the 60s and hope that third round was around par to get back in it. And that certainly was the case. The 68 on Friday was a very intense day. I had to have that round. As yesterday's round was: I had to have that par round. And then today: I just had to have that. I thought I was going to have to shoot 68. I thought even was the number to get to. But I don't -- I don't look back at Thursday as anything just but a bad round. It happens. I shot it. I can't say it was anybody else's fault. I just had a bad day and the best way for me to get that out of my system is really not to think about it. There wasn't anything worthy of thinking about, just kind of go on to the more positive thoughts of playing better the next day.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I have always felt the U.S. Open,, with the preparation of that championships, tests your driving; tests your iron-play; certainly your short game is in tremendous stress all the time. And it tests part of the game which we don't get to see too much and that is the management and the patience - the mental aspect of the game. We saw a number of instances this week where the players lost their cool out there in the kikuyu. When that happens, you just aren't going to manage yourself well. And, I am not saying other tournaments don't have that, but this one seems to be the common thread through the years in all the Opens that I have played in and the Senior Opens, that is sort of the book on an Open Championship. To me, it is the -- it is not the ultimate test. It is certainly up there with any others that can come to mind in terms of testing your skills against the golf course: It is not -- excuse me, it is not the players versus the USGA. It is the players versus the golf course.

HALE IRWIN: No. I knew I had to birdie -- I had to play 2-under. I just felt like 2-under was what I had to do. I told my caddie walking down 15: "I have got to make a couple of birdies somewhere or we got to get a lot of help from the 18th hole." And the putt at 16 was a big putt. And I didn't know what Vicente had done until we got up to the green at 17. When he had parred that, that really put the onus on the (A) putt at 17; and then (B) having to birdie 18 which is a daunting task. It is odd that I go out and you play the 10th hole this week 2-over par and I play 18, 2-under par. So you go figure.

HALE IRWIN: That I am getting off to a bad start. (laughter) Well, I don't know what it tells me, other than maybe when I need to do something, I am capable of doing it and it is sort of getting myself together and being able to do it and not hoping you can do it. But I was -- I stood out there and my second shot at 18 and just said, "You know, I have hit this shot hundreds of times before, it just so happens to be not an easy shot, but I have hit it before. I have hit it successfully before." I have also hit it poorly before, but that is not the thought pattern. The thought pattern is: I have hit it well before. And to do all the things I needed to do, I kind of quickly went through my mental checklist and pulled it off, and the same goes for the putt. In other words, just trying to -- one in front of the other, in front of the other, and keep it simple because you can get yourself so wrapped up in what Vicente is doing or what Raymond or Brian Barnes is doing and all of a sudden, you are not doing your thing.

HALE IRWIN: Well, as I indicated, I thought the chip-in certainly was a slingshot into today. In fact, after I birdied the first hole today, I thought to myself: Hey, I birdied two holes in a row. I don't think I have done that on this golf course. But it was a big lift. Any time you can close off a round with a birdie, that sort of gets you in a better frame of mind for the next day. If you were to just -- you talked to somebody who birdies the last hole for 71 or bogeys the last hole for 71, you are going to see two entirely different dispositions. When you can walk off of 18 with a chip-in birdie, that sort of sets a tone, sets a mood for the following day.

HALE IRWIN: Well, there was virtually no wind today. It was as benign a conditions -- in fact, we were talking about it today on the golf course. I don't think I have played this golf course, ever, where there wasn't some wind generally blowing up the valley. Occasion we get a Santa Anna condition, but I have never seen it play just absolutely calm. Some of the hole locations were just a little bit less severe today. For instance, just the first hole, yesterday you saw probably on the leaderboard only one or two guys, I think, maybe birdied the first hole of yesterday. Today I think everybody did. So that -- the hole locations have a big difference in how the scoring is going to be affected.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I knew that I had to hit a good drive. I wanted to hit it hard. I wanted to hit a big drive there just to get it as far up the fairway as I could. But I also had the adrenaline pumping too, so when that happens, I just try to put things in slow motion. They don't go in slow motion, but they don't go in fast motion either. So the adrenaline push, you kind of have to anticipate that and gear back because you know at impact, you are going to have that surge and that is why you see players sometimes hit the ball farther than what they normally might. I hit the ball right on the nose, hit a really good drive, hit it just exactly the way I wanted to. Picked out my palm tree target and aimed for that, put it in the fairway. Second shot, I was 196 and -- well, because that is uphill, I tend -- when I go uphill, I tend to fade the ball, generally speaking, and not because I am trying; it is just what I do. So that is a good shape for me on that hole because the hole runs that way and I wanted the ball to run into the right center of the fairway. The second shot was, again, the same sort of thoughts, you have a bit of a left-to-right lie, but you have a hook shot. If I try to hit a 5-iron real hard, the tendency might be to overdo it and hit it into that left rough and if there is dead kikuyu somewhere, it is there. You just do not go to the left. You might as well hit it in the Pacific Ocean. So I just felt like maybe the better shot was take a 4-iron and go at the hole. Make sure that I don't try hit it hard, just hit it up high, keep my left shoulder up which keeps me from rotating out of the shot and pulling it - the old thing: Keep your eye on the ball; swing within yourself - those apply just as they do to you. You ought to try it sometime, it works.

HALE IRWIN: Hurt? No. My feelings were hurt. I was rejected. No, that was probably the best putt of the day, really. That was a line. It was a difficult putt. I hit it right on the line and I saw it on replay and it looked like it was breaking in there nicely. Then it sort of straightened up just a little bit. I don't know what happened. It was an awfully exciting time, though. That is what I love about this game, you can look at what Thursday was and your feeling and see where I am today on Sunday, and that is why I continue doing what I do, because it provides those kinds of highs.

HALE IRWIN: Oh, no. I didn't want to play tomorrow. I have got to be in Denver tomorrow. There are people here that got to go to work tomorrow. I think people work in L.A., I am not sure. But a lot of thoughts go through your mind. You are sitting around waiting for Ray to play. I am going, "Okay, don't get stupid; don't hit your downhill too hard." The worst thing you can do is get into a 3-putt situation and then you have got to play tomorrow or you lose it and -- you know, that is the kind of stuff that that creeps in there that you just got to put aside. Then it was my turn to putt. Then you start circling around your target, finally get zeroed in on what you need to do, it is that waiting around that -- that is the culprit sometimes when you have time. Then all these other thoughts enter your mind and -- but when it comes time to get serious about things, that is the difference.

HALE IRWIN: Probably.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I kept telling myself all day: If you just play your game, you will do okay. It is not like I am not playing well. It is not like I have to try and find another gear. It is not like I have to change clubs or something. I have had a fantastic year and if I just play, I will do fine. And that is something that when I am off - which I have been off a little bit this week - I got off a little bit on that Sunday round last week; I didn't play particularly great in the practice rounds here, so my timing was just not quite on. And, coupled with the fact of my desire to win this event, kind of puts you on -- puts you on that edge of maybe you are trying too hard; maybe you are pushing it just a little bit and that is what I kept telling myself: Back away from that, back away from that. And, that is really that you have to find that comfort zone. And playing as I have this year, it is easier for me to go out and find that comfort zone because I have had the success and I know that I can birdie the 18th hole if I just go out and let my skills do it and not let my emotions take over.

HALE IRWIN: A little. Raymond has not had a particularly great year; I think very bad for his standards. He is not hitting the ball -- has not been hitting the ball as well as you think of Ray Floyd. He did hit it better today. We were talking after the tournament. I said, "Ray, looks like you are making some good progress." He did. I played nine holes with him Tuesday and he hit it all over the place. So he found something that got him through. Raymond is a very competitive guy. He has got good management skills. His chipping and putting are very, very good. But, you know, you hit it in that rough a couple of times, you miss a couple of shots, and it just murders you. That is what happened. But surprised, yes. I thought that Ray would -- probably within that par range, that is why I thought 68 was the score I had to shoot.

HALE IRWIN: I don't know what differences when you say there would be, I don't know where in the heck they would be. We played most of the tees about where we played in the L.A. Open. There was no old guys' tees up there. This is the hardest conditions I have ever seen Riviera in. Certainly, the greens are the best they have ever been - firm. I don't know what they could do to make this course more difficult other than maybe move the tees back as far as possible. But even that, we don't -- even in the L.A. Open we don't do that. So I think what we saw today was U.S. Open conditions. Just happened to put "Senior" next to it.

HALE IRWIN: Well, in many respects, yeah, I did some things last year that I felt were better than this year. I think I putted better last year. There are things I just did better. But this year, in summation, is probably a better results-year. So, I may be oversimplifying it or overgeneralizing it, but at the same time, I think last year I really played solidly, day after day after day after day. I didn't have those 77s. I didn't have that kind of a wild score. This year there is just more going on off the golf course right now. There is more distractions. And, I just feel myself kind of drifting. But when I pull myself back, that is where I am. But with my other businesses, my design work and some other things, I've just sort of been distracted, let my mind wander, but I have had such a run this year, I can't explain it. I am sitting here kind of thinking: Boy, this has been a helluva year. I don't want to wake up, just don't wake me up.

HALE IRWIN: Would I like to? In -- well, I have only got a couple of years left. And I think those are spoken for, but I think this golf course is a fantastic venue. If all the other things that go into an Open Championship - parking, gallery control, all that stuff, can they be done? Possibly. Does Riviera Country Club want it? Who knows. But I think it would be a wonderful venue for an Open Championship. These kinds of golf courses -- this has always been one of my favorite courses, simply because it is there in front of you. There is nothing fancy about it. You go out there and you just have to play great golf. Under the conditions that we see now with the kikuyu going - it's not in its dormancy - but it is growing, it really is quite difficult.

HALE IRWIN: You are right, there is no plan. I don't know. I am -- my design work right now is getting very solid. We have a lot of work we are doing. The reason I continue to play is because I so enjoy things like today and what happened today and I enjoy the game. I very much enjoy playing. Certainly, somewhere along the line, there will be a time when you say: Well, how much more do you want to do that. I am not there yet. That time will come and when it comes, I will say: See you, because I don't want to be in that gradual decline mode. I want to step out when the stepping-out time is good. I think that is what Jack was saying when he said he was going to play through the year 2000. With his hip and his game and he is not playing the way he wants to, it is time. He knows that. I am not saying that for him, but he said that. I think you make that decision versus, let's say, Arnie who is continuing to play because he loves the game so dearly and it is so close to him and that is great. I hope he continues playing. So everybody has their own set of circumstances and their own reasons why they continue or they discontinue playing. I think when my time comes, it will be because I am ready for it to stop. I am not ready yet. I don't think I am quite ready for it. This is too much fun doing what I did out there today. 77 wasn't fun, but you know, the week, the opportunity is what I live for and I enjoy that so much.

HALE IRWIN: There was a time period, it was five years, where I did not miss a cut on the regular Tour. Even though the records say like 86 or something, and that is only four years. There is a year missing in there, I know that. I haven't made a big deal of it because it is not a big deal. But that was five years of playing all over the world: British Opens and Japan, Australia, South Africa, I did never miss a cut. I also won two U.S. Opens, and maybe another 10 or 11 events in that time period. So there was a time period in there which I played extremely well - two World Match Play Championships - just played solidly. Now, is it playing as well as I am right now? Well, no, again, you can't compare, but that was a time period in which I really did play quite well. Then we are talking about -- I am talking about I didn't miss a cut and now we are talking about Top-5s, so, that just shows you how things can sort of get twisted a bit. Are we through, folks? Appreciate it. Thanks.