U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

July 6, 1999

Hale Irwin

HALE IRWIN: I did.

HALE IRWIN: What did the other players say? No, I think the golf course is very nice. It is going to be, I think, a significant test for all of us. I am sure the comment has been made already that a good majority of that test will come around the greens. Not terribly unlike the U.S. Open this year where a good bit of the test was around the greens. I think we will see much the same here. Tee-to-green, it is a fairly straightforward course, a nice golf course. I don't think it is what is going to beat us up as much as the improbable positions that some of the cups will be placed. And you guys might have more to say about that than we do. But I think all and all it is a wonderful condition. The rain last night was, I think, a blessing in disguise for the golf course. All and all, it is going to be a very important test, I think, for all of us. It is a great challenge. I don't see where there is going to be a lot of low scoring. Although, I think if a player gets hot and putts the ball in the right spots around the greens and doesn't get a lot of the big swinging putts, has an opportunity to play well. I was told today -- I didn't keep track -- but Bruce said that I made eight birdies today. Whether or not that is in truth or fact, I don't know, but I know I made a lot. But I also hit the ball very well and I putted well. But that is a practice round. But that might be some indication of what you can do if you are really playing well. But if not, miss a few fairways and get on the wrong sides of some of these greens, you are going to be hard-pressed to make par.

HALE IRWIN: I have played extremely well. There is no doubt about that. I think it is in large part due to sort of a recommitment of focus, if you wish, to get myself more back in the frame of mind and in the playing mode of which I found myself at this time last year. Coincidental to that, and maybe it is not coincident. Maybe a direct result of the good play is that I went back to the old golf ball that I have been using over the last two years. The first half of the year I was struggling with a different ball. These are Titleist balls, by the way. So it is not like I was leaving the family. But I just went back to the old Professional rather than the new Professional. And it is a ball I knew, a ball I had great success with. And I have won three out of five tournaments since I have switched to it. The real challenge is to find some because they don't make them anymore. That is sort of what I ordered and what I can find.

HALE IRWIN: Whatever you say. No, I have played well. And I think what is hard for me to communicate and certainly, therefore, hard for people to understand is that the start of this year I -- not that I was trying to play badly. I was not. But I just wasn't in the frame of mind, the focus, the mood, if you wish, to go at it like I had been going. For two years it was a fairly intense, and '98 was a superior year. And you just kind of got to take the wind out of the sails sometime. And I wanted to take it out before it fell out. I didn't want to be coming into this part of the season just absolutely dead beat, because you know it is going to happen somewhere. So I purposely let it go to try to start coming back. Now, it fell lower than what I wanted it to. But I mean I have made this equation before that it is a little bit like you go step in a puddle. It is a little deeper than you thought. And you get into it a little bit of a free-fall. You lose your balance, and maybe you fall flat in the mud. But get back up, clean yourself off, and keep going. Well that is sort what I did. I had not intended to play that poorly, but at the level to which I had been playing, ooh- then just to step down a notch. It was four, five notches. And I spent that building it back up. I feel my game is back where I wanted it now. Whether or not I will continue playing as I had, anybody's guess. But I feel good about my game right now.

HALE IRWIN: Well, yesterday it was probably the biggest crowd I have seen on a Monday anywhere in any tournament I have ever been in. It was an unbelievable display of support and enthusiasm. I thought it was fantastic. But I think it is a measure of when you take a championship of this stature to an area like Des Moines that it hasn't seen a lot, the support that you get in some of these other markets is fantastic. And the people have been extremely kind. But it has been a wonderful display of support for this Championship by the people of Des Moines and this area.

HALE IRWIN: You mean when I get into the panic attack, what happens?

HALE IRWIN: Well, there are a number of things that -- one thought that might work today won't work tomorrow. You kind of have to have something that tells you the same thing in a different fashion. For me, part of that is always timing. I think that we talk about it and you read about it and you hear about it, but I think it needs to be underlined, without proper timing - and with that goes a lot of things -- I don't want to just say it is, how quickly you swing the club. But a lot of times it has to do with your alignment. I mean, you have to tie these things together. Sometimes when I think of rhythm, it ties in alignment and body posture, or my thought right now is my body posture, my spine angle. Well, that is helping me with alignment and consequently with my rhythm. So they all work hand-and-hand together. But I found through the years that there is a number of things that helped me out in a big way. And part two is grip pressure. Right now, my -- I am keeping my right hand on the club. I tend to let it get too soft. In keeping with that rhythm, sometimes I just -- it gets lazy. And right now I am trying to keep the right hand on there, with a good spine angle, and it is working.

HALE IRWIN: Well, two plays in particular. One, I was a sophomore back in the old split-tee option days, we ran a perfect option. I call it perfect option. We went out there and gave it the old hand thing to the pitch-out. The defensive end fell for it, turned up field, about 15 or 20 yards, maybe it was 10. But I was flying, I was really looking good.... (laughs). You are not writing this down, Jerry. But then you get a tackle, and the halfback had been keeping up. As he makes the tackle, you pitched it out again. It goes on down. I mean, that to me was the way it is diagramed. That was one play. Then as a senior, we played in one of those days in the wintertime that can, just like yesterday, but reverse, it is cold, it is blowing, it is about that far from sleet. The home team has charcoal burners on the other side of the field keeping them warm; we have got nothing. But I am over there in a -- make a tackle on the sideline. It's slick. Then we just start sliding; into the bench we go. All hell falls over. And I say "all hell" because I am sitting there waiting for things to quit falling. And Frank Bosh (phonetic), who was a defensive tackle, went onto play with the Washington Redskins. He comes over and with one hand grabs me by the back of my shoulder pads, just picks me up like this. I said, Frank, put me down. I said, "What the hell are you doing? " He says, "You are burning." All those coals had fallen on my neck, and my jersey was smouldering. But it was a cold day. We fortunately had good success against Iowa State, but I never liked to play them too much because they were great big backs. We are getting into football here instead of golf, but it is okay.

HALE IRWIN: They had a player -- a crack-back (sic) on the inside safety, which was me, split end. I hated that because you couldn't see it coming. I was a little guy. They were big guys kicking me around all the time. Now it is illegal. Then it was not.

HALE IRWIN: I think we are disappointed that Jack is not playing. And we hope that he recovers quickly. Understandably, his nature is such to try and get back and try to push the recovery time period, but it just takes a bit longer and than even Jack anticipated. And certainly the U.S. Senior Open is not complete without Jack being in there. But at the same time, I think we are going to have a wonderful tournament with/without Jack. But all of us wish him well and hopes he gets back very, very soon. The sooner -- I actually should say later rather than sooner, because we want him back completely healed.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think the evolution of golf as we have seen it over the last several decades is such, with television and the tremendous crowds we are seeing now, it seems to point towards a conclusion on Sunday. I don't think there is too many people that want to go into Monday. And having been in one of those Monday things as a player, I am not necessarily against that. I personally don't mind the longer playoff period. I really don't. Sudden death seems very sudden, and it is definitely sudden death. (laughs). Forget it. So I personally, I don't mind it. But from the perspective of many others who play a very important part of this event, I think that we need to have some sort of format that all the television stations and the crowd and everybody that leaves the tournament can go back and talk about how it was won or how it was lost that day and not wait until tomorrow.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think so. I was involved in the original four-hole playoff with Roger Maltby, if you remember, at the Memorial. And that was sort of the odd duck then. But it could have been a bit before its time, but I think it was good.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I don't know what Tom is thinking. I played with Tom last Monday and a week ago yesterday in a Pro-Am in Minneapolis. Tom's game is still very good. There is no doubt that he is very capable. The only thing I would say, I don't care who it is, and I am not going to point just at either Tom Watson or Tom Kite or Lanny Wadkins or any of the players coming up, you still have to play and put the ball in the hole. You still have to putt it and put it in the hole. If you have got putting woes, and I am not saying that Watson or any of those guys do, but if you do, you are not going to correct them before you get out there, most likely. You still have to be able to do that. There are a lot of guys out there that can do that. Whether Tom expects to play well, or the other Tom expects to play well or Lanny -- I would assume they do, being the champions that they are, so I would anticipate they would bring a major impact to the SENIOR TOUR, knowingly not only in their notoriety but in the way they have carried themselves and the titles and Professional manner they have played this game. I anticipate it is going to be a very, very successful SENIOR TOUR starting the millennium.

HALE IRWIN: Can someone be 65 literally and play like they are 55?

HALE IRWIN: I see. Well it certainly depends. If you take Bob Charles, great condition, he just seems to go on and on and doesn't show any wear-and-tear. He is a great putter, still is a great putter. So Bob could certainly be one of those players that is in the over 60 category, Al Geiberger who has played extremely well this year. Had we had yesterday's heat the rest of the week then it would be very difficult, I think. But considering the change in weather which seems to be more of a tolerable weather it could happen. The odds of it happening are certainly long but it could happen, yes but there is not very many guys that are at that age that are playing in the event. So just the odds there say probably not.

HALE IRWIN: How budding are they. 14 years or junior golfers, high school?

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think the one thing that I would like to see more kids do is take some of their natural abilities, not necessarily -- I think we as instructors if -- those people that are encouraging the young people to use more of their natural instincts because -- and the reason I say that is because if they progress on to become professionals and before they come successful there, they have to be able to step up on the 18th tee and not be thinking about connecting the dots. They can't manufacture a swing. It's got to be a swing that is theirs. I think one of the reasons I have played well now and maybe not as well in my earlier years because I was still learning how to play. But I know my game. I know me and I know the buttons to push. But if you have somebody that -- if you hit the ball poorly, in a given round and you can't correct it yourself until you get to a telephone or get to your coach or get to your shrink or get to whatever, then I think you are going the wrong way. You are not using the God-given talents and judgments that you need to make yourself. So I think you got to take a combination of good instruction - what is natural to you may not be natural to me. So everybody has to have their individual swing characteristics and the thoughts we were talking about thoughts earlier.

HALE IRWIN: Absolutely. I think we all would watch Arnie play, there is no doubt. We'd all watch Lee, Gary, Chi Chi, Jack and all the names that have been synonymous with if not great golf, at least entertaining golf. And those gentlemen bring about not only their great skills, but they bring great notoriety. They bring major championship winners' credentials. I think the fan response will be terrific for those guys. If you look at the names that are coming on even after those fellows, it is going to be quite a parade of very, very successful players. I think it just bodes well for the next decade for Seniors and the golf that is going to be available.

HALE IRWIN: I want to catch a bass that is at least seven or eight pounds. You talk about things I want to do or things that I -- I mean, golf is a constant. That is one of the things. Certainly this Championship, from a career perspective, will always be at the top of my list. It always has been and always will be. Of course I would love to repeat. That just would be something to really look forward to. Beyond that, if I need immediate goals there is several players ahead of me. Bruce Fleisher is having a spectacular year and Allen is having a great year, Allen Doyle, and Larry Nelson, those three guys are -- I am not No. 1. I am kind of down there, so I have, if I want to get to No. 1, then I have got to do some serious peddling and I have to prioritize, but I am trying not to do that as we speak right now because this Championship to me it is one at a time and this is just one and I will worry about the others later. But I think -- I was watching the Today Show yesterday, I don't know if anybody saw the interview with Arnie - Matt Lauer and Arnie and Matt asked him if there is anything he wanted -- had yet to do or some such question; Arnie's response was he still wants to do -- like win a PGA TOUR Event. And I think Arnie's response was great in that, yes, you just don't bury the competitive instincts regardless of your age, there is still something inside of you saying: You can do it; you can do it. When that dies, your game dies. That is when you step away. But as long as there is that sliver of hope, that little bit of silver lining, even though it may be a thunderhead, you know the storm is coming, that will always keep you moving along. To say this tournament is more important or that goal is more important, no, I think as a competitor you want to continue on and just play and achieve -- hit the shots. I still enjoy hitting shots and saying, boy, I love that shot. Maybe I am shooting 85, but boy, that was a good golf shot. That is as good as I can do it. That is what I like to do. If you can put a series of those together, then you win tournaments.

HALE IRWIN: Well, there is no doubt there is going to be some players here that are going to suffer if the heat does return like it did yesterday where -- I mean, everybody is going to suffer a bit. But if you let the heat get in your mind, it is going to beat you. There is not too many players here that I think are going to be thinking of the heat and those that are not going to be playing well. Those that are thinking of their golf game, the heat is not going to be a factor other than the obvious of keeping your hands dry, keeping liquids in, all that stuff. If you start thinking about the weather, you should do that before you tee off and watch the Weather Channel. Otherwise you think about your golf game. But you are right. There is probably only a dozen players out here that really you can truly call -- are fit where the heat will certainly affect everybody but will affect them less than others.

HALE IRWIN: 75 .....

HALE IRWIN: Well, I don't know. I can remember once when I was 14 years old went back to play in Norfolk Virginia I shot 79 the first round; 90 the second round. Murray Lexford (phonetic) I don't know if anybody knew him, the guy that announced the Bing Crosby tournament, he had a microphone; he said do you want me to announce that he shot 90? I said, hey, I shot it, announce it. I can't help it, I tried every shot, I just happened to shoot 90. So no, I can't remember, but I am sure it wasn't too long ago. Probably sooner than I would think it was.

HALE IRWIN: I think you can continue looking for that secret your whole life. I think we come back to a little bit of what happened prior to the U.S. Open at Olympic Club. Technology can go only so far under the rules of golf but there is a gray area there that I think is -- can be interpreted a number of ways. I would not be in favor of technology necessarily going beyond where we find it now because I think it is easier now and you can see it certainly with the players that are playing the SENIOR TOUR, we all hit the ball farther, at least as far, if not farther. We tend to play better shots than we ever have in our entire lives and that is not because our skills have become that much better. I think it is because technology has closed the gap between the players at the top and the players at the bottom and that is why your see, I think, some very competitive tournaments now. But at the same time I don't think you can hold back changes in the game. Natural evolution is part of the game. What rules are hard and fast, you know, I don't know that. Seems like the judicial system tells us what we can and cannot do anymore. This is probably far off the subject, but I just hope that your golf still maintains a great degree of integrity and player's skills rather than the equipment being the major focus of the game of golf.

HALE IRWIN: Well, the difference in the Titleist balls are very minimal, but the old Professional was a ball in which I knew how far I was going to hit it each time, under what conditions. It was a very predictable ball that fit my game very nicely. The new Professional; it, too, is a very good ball, but it goes a little bit farther, it has a little different flight characteristics, therefore, affected my game appreciably more than it might some other player's game. And that is where I was finding the hiccup was I was hitting it a little too far with some clubs and I couldn't find the right pattern. When I went back to this other one, it was just like it fell into place. I was back with the old thoughts and back with the predictable lengths, predictable flight pattern that I was looking for.

HALE IRWIN: Oh, it is still on the conforming ball list.

HALE IRWIN: I have no idea.

HALE IRWIN: I think once the supply is gone it is probably gone. We will see. But it is still on the list.

HALE IRWIN: No, I don't. I am squeaking through. I have got enough at home probably to last me another several months and if Titleist can come up with a few others, that would be great. It is not just me. There are other players that are saying the same thing so they indeed might reinstitute the ball. I don't know, you would have to talk to Titleist about it. Right here, the lady with the foot up in the air. She has got the Titleist across and her husband's is a Titleist.

HALE IRWIN: We have to have some limits whatever they may be and within those limits, I think is where you find the game as we have known it all these many years and getting back to design issue, how do you design golf distances? 8,500 yards and about this wide (indicating six inches) How do you do that?

HALE IRWIN: Starting back after the first round, very, very high. It has to rank in there in the top 4, 5 at least. Primarily because it was played on a very nice golf course, not a course in which it gives up a lot of low scores. I think in most player's minds, Riviera really is a golf course that tests all parts of your game. In my case, having got off to such a disappointing start, I have been knowing that if I went out and played the last three rounds technically sound and that I could come back. But it was a long road to go but that is all I wanted to think about was I had to concentrate on forgetting what I did, with what I have to do and I think that is critical to my game or anybody's game, you can't replay the last shot or the last hole or the last round; you have to go forward from there and I was fortunately able to do that. I was able to turn that switch and forget about that and continue on. But it had to be one of my career comebacks.

HALE IRWIN: Thank you very much.