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SENIOR PGA CHAMPIONSHIP

May 25, 2005

Hale Irwin

LIGONIER, PENNSYLVANIA

JULIUS MASON: Hale Irwin, ladies and gentlemen. We'll try this. The defending champion, playing in his 10th senior PGA Championship. A note here says that Hale can tie Jack Nicklaus for the most Senior Majors if he wins this week. Did you know that?

HALE IRWIN: I did not. That's an important statistic to have this week.

JULIUS MASON: Some opening thoughts and let's go to Q&A.

HALE IRWIN: No questions? No answers.

Q. Just wondering how difficult it's been for you and the rest of the golfers to get a feel for the course and everything with all rain that's been here this week.

HALE IRWIN: Well, actually the course itself is holding up very nicely. I played yesterday morning quite early. In fact I was first out. And it showed very little moisture retention. It's almost as if it's rained softly enough to where it's soaking in nicely. Today it was a little wetter. The course played considerably longer this morning. I teed off again first out this morning.

It played considerably longer today than yesterday. So I think what we're seeing is as the rains come in, the course is starting to play a little bit longer, it's fairly chilly right now as well. But getting a feel for the golf course, I don't think it's that big a challenge no, let me back up. The challenge is certainly there. But getting a fell for it is not the big issue because there's really not a lot of tricky holes out there. What you see off the tee is pretty much what you get. Your second shot is pretty much what you get. The only couple holes that might be give some pause forethought would be your second shot on No. 11, the par 5. And you want to keep it up on top, you want to try to move it down around the corner. And then where the tees will be located on number 18 will probably predetermine how you might play 18. Whether you want to try to go for the green in two or not. Now as the weather warms up an increasing number of players will be able to go at 18, even from the back tee. But this morning it was pretty dodgey to try and go at that green in two. So for those of us that are unfamiliar with Laurel Valley, I don't think it will be that hard to pick up. I haven't played here in, it's been a very, very, long time. And many of the shots, many of the situations that I faced say in the Ryder Cup are already coming back. You can remember shots played. I know that seems impossible, but it kind of is. So I don't think the rain right now I don't think the rain's the issue. It's probably more of a temperature than it is the rain.

Q. You're the greatest player in terms of success on this tour. Why do you think or how do you think you have managed to do that and prolong your career, because most people would have said that a guy's best years is over when he is 55.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I don't know as there's a really clear cut answer to that. Longevity in any profession seems to be one of those mystical things. But for meaning that a number of things. Genetics, obviously, I've been blessed with a fairly good physical composition. Mentally I think I might be a little unstable at times, but, you know, that's just the way it goes. But I think that that is certainly a good part of it. But secondly I really tried not to let myself feel older. There are times, certainly, where your body doesn't react quite the way it used to. But there are some accommodations you can make in playing the game. Maybe you don't hit the ball quite as far, maybe you're more proficient in some other areas. I think there's a way to show that you're still competitive and still not hit the ball as long as you might have or be as aggressive as you might have been once upon a time. Maybe just managing your game better. I still think that there's better golf to be played by me. And maybe that's not going to happen. But that's what I feel in my heart of hearts that I still think I'm still learning the game. There's shots that I still have yet to learn how to play and play well. Now is that anything to do with a secret or a formula of success? That's just the way I am. That's the way I've been around sports a long time and that's just what I've always felt like. It's an enormous learning curve. And I'm not on top of it yet.

Q. You obviously won the tournament in a downpour last year. So far this year?

HALE IRWIN: Several downpours, thank you.

Q. So far this year, we're getting a little bit of the rain, does it boost your confidence knowing that you played well in this kind of weather and what do you do to prepare yourself for the delays when they happen and what you need to do afterwards?

HALE IRWIN: Well the delays, presumably there's some inference to Kentucky last year and the fortunate thing is we don't have a river that will ever flood. A creek that will go over the bounds like it did last year. Our delays here probably will be more from the possibility of thunder storms. I doubt that the the way the course has held the water thus far and drained it out, I don't think we're going to see unless we have really heavy downpours, that we're going to see a water delay. We may get some lightning delays, but if there is a delay, you just have to be patient. There's just not a lot you can do. Last year there was not a lot you just hang around the club, you hang and you hang and you hang. Well, you just have to deal with it somehow. There are some that get impatient and maybe start venting or you can only watch sports center so many times and after awhile it becomes, I've seen that game three times already. I know the results. For me, last year for instance I took a book with me. And rather than sitting in the locker room hearing all the complaining, I went out in the car and read my book. So I think you have to create some separation from what you might not want to hear, versus what you need to hear. What I needed to hear is what time are we going back out. What I didn't need to hear was all the other opinions of what should be done.

It's not as if you can go back to your hotel room here. There's most of the players that are stage some appreciable distance, so we are fairly close. They had a relatively small club house. This is not a particularly large one. So there will be a lot of people on top of one another. And you deal with it. If there's a switch you can turn on and turnoff, that would be great. It's difficult.

Q. Two quick questions, please. The book you were reading last year, what was it?

HALE IRWIN: I don't know. I have no idea.

Q. A novel, scientific book?

HALE IRWIN: Scientific? Wow. No, it was one of those kind that you just read on airplanes where you it's a fictional, read it, forget it, don't know what it was. So when somebody asks you you have to say I don't know.

Q. You're obviously the heavy favorite, if not odds on, does that particularly bother you, do you have any issue with that at all?

HALE IRWIN: I don't lay the odds. I don't make them. Doesn't bother me one way or the other. I'm one of 150? 158? 155, in the field. I could click off at least 10 other guys right now that I think have an excellent chance of winning. Perhaps more if I had the field in front of me to look at. But I don't think of it in terms of that. I'm not out to necessarily try and beat the other players, I'm out to play as best I can. And give myself an opportunity going into the last nine holes, the last day. That's if I've done that, then I've done, I've met my objective. And then you just sort of use your experience, use hopefully the skills that have gotten you this far on that last nine holes. Because that's where tournaments are won and more than likely tournaments are lost.

Q. The moisture aside, was the 7100 yards along 71 or a short 71?

HALE IRWIN: Here? Is that what we're playing?

Q. Yeah. And might they adjust some of the tees? Is it wet enough that they might adjust some of the tees in the first couple rounds?

HALE IRWIN: Well, the only one that I'm familiar with might be 18. That's simply because they put a sign out on the tee. I didn't realize that it was 7100 yards. That doesn't matter. That would be one of the longer courses and it will play at least that with the conditions right now, the ball off the tee yesterday was bouncing and getting some roll. Today a lot of times they were not going very far. So that's the addition of one to perhaps two clubs, depending upon the shot. Some of these greens are of a size where you could have one to three clubs difference. So it really is not so much how it reads here on the card, about you where will those hole locations be to affect number 8, for instance. Big green. That's at least three clubs from the front hole location to a back hole location. And some of these greens are large enough to where it will be a two and three club differential. So it may read the first hole 390, but it may be 380 one day, it could be 410 the next. So it's not so much what this card reads right now. Although making an approximation it's going to play very close to that the entire week is my guess.

Q. In the years in other sports, is there anything that you learned from that that's helping you now in golf?

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think that my football career certainly taught me to get on top of the pile instead of being at the bottom. And that was the most important thing I learned going from offense to defense was a lot more fun. A lot of things happen in that pile that aren't good.

But I think that because of that it's given me a more of a feeling of maybe tenacity, if that's the right word. Maybe that don't give up attitude. The competitive spirit that still burns within me has been stoked through the years by playing other sports. And golf might be the most supreme of all the individual sports. Football is one of the, maybe on the opposite end of the scale. But I played a lot of sports in between as well. But any or activity, I think, teaches you the importance of not giving up at any point in time. Not until the game is over. And that's what I've tried to carry through into my golf career is a lot of things can happen. And I've seen them happen. I've been a part of it, and on the good and the bad. And the one thing that I have tried to carry through is particularly now if it's difficult for me, then it's going to be difficult for everybody else. Simply because the experience that I have gone through would indicate that that's a logical deduction. That the other players are going to be just as excited about hitting their second shot over the 18th lake as I will be. Some people may be playing it from way up from me and some may be back, but it still doesn't take away the excitement of it. And I think that you just learn to you have to learn yourself. I think the more successful players if we could sit Jack Nicklaus in here and some other kid named Tiger and analyze what they're doing, they have grown accustom to doing things their way and the right way. What they consider the right way. And knowing themselves, what they can do under any circumstance. Knowing when to pull the trigger and when not to. Or when to be aggressive, when not to. And that takes awhile. You have to be there. You have to knock on the doors a number of times. And we have seen, you could pick up any number of examples of people that have been in the position to win a major championship and God bless them, they did. But what did they learn from it that they have carried through the next time? And you've seen players that have done that and carried through and carried through. And they learned, they built upon that. And others seem to have forgotten what they did. And that's not say they're bad players, they just haven't built upon it. And that, I think that has something to do with their constitution and how you're made up. I don't know if I answered your question but I'm not sure it's an answerable question, to tell you the truth.

Q. At 18 how close would you have to be to risk going for the green on your second shot?

HALE IRWIN: Well, the air is right now the air is real heavy. It seems that that air right over the lake is really heavy right now. It just hits that and stops.

My goal go point will be if I've got perhaps 215, 220 or less. If I'm more than that, then it's most likely a three wood off of a little bit of a hanging lie, three wood? A metal, three metal. And I won't do that. Not unless it comes down to perhaps the last day, last hole and I got my eye on the leader board to see who might be in front or behind. But more than likely I will make the general decision that I will not go at that green with anything more than a lofted four, 17 degree or 19 degree something or other. Four wood, five wood, something of that nature. It's just too difficult off of that lie to get the ball in the air to get the carry you might normally have. 215 yard carry over that it's going to be more like a 225 yard carry. Simply because the lie is taking off a good five to 10 yards.

Q. Relative to the way you approach majors on the Regular TOUR, what sense of urgency do you approach them on this tour?

HALE IRWIN: I don't have a sense of urgency, really. The time will come when that sense of urgency is perhaps more prevalent than it is now. And I don't really look at it necessarily from having a sense of urgency as I am looking at it, can I still play the game that I want to play or feel like I'm, that I need to play, to be competitive. And we're seeing that in Jack. Making his announcement to retire from competitive golf. And we have all sensed that for a number of years now. And I think he feels that now is the time for him to step away when he physically can't do what he wants to do. And we all get to that point at some period of time. Now whether or not it's going to happen to me sooner or later, I have no sense of urgency simply because I go out there and every shot or every day I do the best I can with what I've got that day. And I don't have any look backs and say, boy, I wish I would have done this. I just don't do that. I tried the best I could at that point in time. That's all I can ever ask. And so therefore I don't have that, gosh, if I would have only done it this way or why did I do that. That's second guessing and it will kill you every time. So I don't play that game with myself and I don't really think of things in terms of I need it, if I don't get it now, I'll never get it, kind of urgency. I've had success. Yes, I could have had more success. I could have had less success. So I tried to take what I've been given and take what I've, the opportunities afforded to me and enjoy them.

Q. What are your thoughts on kind of along those same lines with Arnold? He kind of indicated yesterday he's struggling a little bit between wanting to put on a show for the fans here in his backyard and struggling with his game, just your thoughts on what he's going through and I guess as a follow up, just what he's meant to the game of golf over the years.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think that what he's meant to the game really needs little definition. He's been the era of television, when we really entered into a big, the arena of television, Arnie was at the point there. And so he's been there for a long time. His desire to play and the competitive nature that Arnold has, that's still there. Unfortunately, his body, his game is not letting him play the kind of game that he would love to play. And he probably is, was at that cross roads a number of years ago but has chosen to continue on, simply because I think that the fans and still want to see him and certainly here in this area they want to see Arnie. And I don't mean to drag Jack back into this, but I think you're seeing Jack perhaps doesn't have quite the same commitment that Arnold may have, not to his fans and not I think they both are deeply committed to the game of golf and their businesses. Which are centered around golf. But each of them go at it a little different level.

There are world, you have the world of Arnold and the world of Jack Nicklaus and they bump into one another a lot. But each approaches that world a little bit differently. Arnold loves to play the game. He loves to play with his friends. Jack doesn't necessarily play that much. Doesn't mean he doesn't like to play, but his professed career was around major championships. Well, Arnold's been just around the game. So it's kind of hard to say I wouldn't speak for Arnold, I wouldn't even try to. We all have loved Arnold and I think that the time has come, the time is coming where he may not have the stomach for the way he's been playing. And I think he said that. Every time he's before the press or before the media, he just indicates he's not playing the way he would like to. And that happens to all of us. But will he continue? Will he step out of the lime light? Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus never step out of the lime light. They will find the niche, golf will find them a niche. They will create a niche. They will still be part of the game. Ben Hogan hadn't played for how many years and he's still part of the game. Byron Nelson. These great players, they don't go away, they just find another way in which to possibly influence the game of golf.

Q. Two things. One, talk about transition within the Champions Tour, obviously Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus are slowly moving to the side as other players have and you're in the you're middle of the fray and there's a lot of what I'll call younger players now coming on the tour. What's the health of the tour from your standpoint and do you see that the 25 years that they have used to build this tour, is it enough of a framework for it to keep going?

HALE IRWIN: Well, I definitely think so. I was having that conversation with Jay Haas this morning when we were playing. I feel very good about it. I don't necessarily agree with because Jack and Arnold and are stepping aside that the game is in jeopardy. I don't think that at all. I think we got a strong contingent of sponsors on the Champions Tour. We have got an even stronger yet ingredients of players coming on. Now we can make assumptions that well Greg Norman is going to play. Well we don't know that Greg is going to play. But can certainly assume that most of the players that are going to be eligible to play, will play. And like I told Jay, I said my concern, not my concern but a concern's been expressed to me is that they have both won enough money to not want to do that. But you don't, the best players don't do it for the money. They do it for the competition, they do it for the playing of the game. It's not a money issue. If we were in such bad straights I don't believe that Charles Schwab would put up the kind of money they're putting up for a season long competition. They're not dummies. They see value there. I think that we have great value. I think that the players coming on will bring value and those voids. That are temporarily made by a departing superstar, they will be filled. You can never fill the shoes, but they will be filled in some capacity. So I think that we're in good shape, to tell you the truth. I don't worry about it. I concern myself with the to get the right number of tournaments, get them in the right marketplaces, get them for the right amount of money and we will be just fine.

Q. My other question was, you said earlier that you're still learning the game, there's still things that you feel like you need to accomplish or do. Could you outline to most of us someone of your caliber and what you've accomplished seems hard to believe that you're still learning the game. What aspects are you still trying to master?

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think that the golf swing itself with today's technology, things are always in some sort of state of flux. And how far can I expect to hit a ball now versus just two or three years ago. And that changes as each new ball comes out or each piece of equipment. It changes things somewhat. Now what can I do with that current situation to more positively affect the shot or the tournament in which I'm playing right now. Yeah, I think that there are times I get out there and I think I'm playing golf like I never played it before. And then there are times I'm thinking it's just so simple. So finding who I am on the golf course, which person's going to come up for that shot or that situation, U.S. Open last year, I'm playing against Jay and Peter has got the lead. That's an exciting time. And I don't care who you are, if you don't get excited and you will muff some shots under pressure, but the trick is not to muff them so bad you can't play it again. Everybody chokes. And anybody that sits here or tells you they don't choke, is telling you a fib. You choke. It's just some don't choke like others. We all get excited. When you don't get excited, that's when you better get out of the game. So that's what I mean about there's still things that I'm still learning about me and how I every tournament is different. There's not situation that comes up that's exactly like another. So every time you enter into that excitement zone, if you wish, that higher anxiety zone, you never been there before. Yes, it's similar, it's sort of like, it's maybe, but it's never the same. Now if I could go back and take the experience I now have and play in a PGA Championship, if I could go back and play the U.S. Open championships, British Opens, whatever those tournaments may be, who know, maybe I would have been a better player. That's why I feel like I'm still in a learning mode about how I play in a competitive arena. And I enjoy learning that. It's things I think that help me in the way I live my life. Because I understand there's some corollaries, some parallels drawn that I think are important.

Q. Pressure experiences I keep thinking of that Ryder Cup at Kiawah island and the putt. Is that the most pressure situation you've ever been in and if so were there things that you had experienced that helped you cope with that?

HALE IRWIN: Well, I didn't have to make that putt, Bernhard did. To go back to the Ryder Cup, I'll just use another analogy, if I may. It goes back a long period of time before that. It was 1976. I believe. It was the Citrus Open in Orlando, Florida. The old Florida Citrus Open. Kermit Zarley and I were in a playoff that lasted two holes on Sunday. I'll even go back before that. I had opened with I think 74 and I had gone to an official and said, how do you withdraw? I had never left a tournament in my life. And after I got to thinking, I said, you know, that's an easy way out, go play, take your medicine, if you miss the cut, fine, at least you didn't quit. So I went out the next day and I shot 64.

And I shot 2, 66s to end up tying Kermit Zarley. And we had two holes, we had to stop because of dark, came back the next days, and I had dreamt about playing the 17th hole all night. I had to hit my drive here and second shot. And, boy, I hit my drive right where I wanted, hit my second. Kermit, he had probably hit it 25 feet or so, long, had a kind of a tough swinging putt. That thing goes below the hole, catches the lip and falls in. Well, I have about 12 feet, 15 feet from the hole. And I am really excited. Excited and nervous. I get over my putt, and I feel like I'm going to black out. I mean it's just the heart is just pounding. And I have to step away. I walk around a little bit. I go back and same thing. You got to trust it. Right in the hole. So I win three holes later. Great lesson. Is that, you know, sometimes you just got to trust what you're doing and that experience, and I sit here today and tell you because it really made a mark on me of what I can do under that kind of pressure.

Now, fast forward to Ryder Cup at Kiawah, there was not a lot of pressure in the early going. There was a sense that there might be something. Just simply because the way the scoring was, the way the matches, it was just my feeling. I hadn't discussed with Dave or anything. Maybe Dave had the same feeling, I don't know. But I was last. And as the match wore on, I felt like that the advantageous holes were the outward few holes and the inward few holes for Langer, but the in between holes were mine. And that's the way I played them. I said if I can play him even that way, get up playing this way and then take that lead going back to the stretch, I have a chance.

And that's the way it played out. He played better than I on those holes, I initially I was even, I was two up, made the turn back into the wind, and I won't say I gave him a hole because you deserve every hole you won there. But I hit a couple of bad shots. As did he. But he's the guy who had to make that putt at the last hole. And I don't think he hit a bad putt. I think it was just the experience of not having played there, the one or two or three times as I have. Because I made the comment to my teammates that if you're putting across the green at 18, the grain will take it more than any other green on the golf course. Because I had been there a couple of days early. And that's what I was hoping would happen with his putt.

Q. Another example, you won the Senior Open in '98 I guess?

HALE IRWIN: At Riviera.

Q. Yeah. It was the first round you had a high score. 77?

HALE IRWIN: Yeah, I did. 77. God, you're bringing up some good things.

Q. Well, I was there.

HALE IRWIN: 77 and I didn't want to talk about it.

Q. Well, we were all watching you thinking, what in the world can the man do now? I think you played the rest of the course seven under par and won at even par.

HALE IRWIN: Well, after a 77 there's nothing memorable to even talk about or remember. There's nothing about that day that was going to do me any good to dwell on. That's why I immediately flushed it from the system. And thought about tomorrow. How do I need to play tomorrow to make the day better. And that was the mindset. I just forgot the things that had happened. If you can. And dealt with what I had before me. And that was I had three rounds in which to make up a lot of strokes on a quality course against a quality field. And I did that. I made that putt at the last hole at Riviera, it's a kind of putt that's very quick, up over a little mound and down to the hole and it was a tough, tough putt. But I put it right in the center and now you think, okay, well where does experience come in there? Where does confidence come in? Where does let it happen? Where does the trust? It all comes together right there. There was no way of which I wasn't going to try and birdie that hole. And it was an aggressive play, but that's the way I had meant to play it. Now would I do it on this hole? Well, it's not like I got a four iron in my hand like I did at Riviera. You might have a different coming together kind of shot here. But somewhere along the line that experience will benefit you. We all question, say Chris Di Marco at the Masters this year, not going for the 15th green. Go back in time. Chip Beck, us questioning Chip Beck. Well you know what, that guy is standing over that ball. It's easy for us to sit at home and watch it on television and say, well why doesn't he do it. Well, you know, his ball might be sitting down a little bit. He might be just on a little bit of a down slope. Because it's all carry over that 15. There's no little bounce up there. So you have to be very confident of what you're hitting is going to get all the way there. And anything could affect that decision.

Q. So David Toms won a PGA by laying up in Atlanta.

HALE IRWIN: That's right. So it's not always the aggressive play, it's what is best for you at that time. And that's what you got to determine. And that's the accept ray tore right there. Can you live with your decision and go for it. And not worry about what other people are thinking. See, I think Chris Di Marco won the Masters. He played steadily down the stretch. Tying, that's the most phenomenal shot I've ever seen hit under those conditions but I guarantee you Tiger didn't mean to put it on that blade of grass, trickle into the hole just like that. He may have said, if I could have somehow had a putt for a three, if I could get it there, he would be happy. But it was a remarkable golf shot. But that shot and the drive at 17 and the way he played 18 were kind of, wow, ugly. But he won. He found away to win.

Q. On that Di Marco thing, if I could elaborate. Lanny said he was playing for second. So we asked Chris about it, he said if he had been two yards farther back he would have gone for it. He was on a down slope and he had to try to cut a three wood or flat kill a 2 iron, either one was in the water. The 2 iron was in the water if he doesn't make it. If he was back he would have gone for it . He said he wasn't playing for second. And he did bird the hole anyway.

HALE IRWIN: Yeah, well Lanny is out spoken. But there again, there's a player, Lanny, he has won tournaments, he's been a very, very good player through the years. But we don't know, we're not there, we don't have that stance, we're not feeling that. We can only observe from a distance. And I've been there. I've been on that 15th hole and you look and you say I can hit this shot but you know there's always that little bit of a down slope that you got there. The television sort of flattens out you don't notice, unless you're there in person and particularly standing over that ball, with that little bit of down slope, like Chris said, it's a big hit, if you hit it too far now you're in the lake behind. So he made the right decision I think. If there's any question in those kind of situations, you got to go with the odds. The odds say play it safe. You through with me? I think they're bored stiff. Look, they're asleep.

JULIUS MASON: Thanks for coming down, Hale.

HALE IRWIN: Thank you. Okay. By the way, you know this is a double points for the Schwab Cup, so let's not forget that.

End of FastScripts.

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