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THE OPEN CHAMPIONSHIPJuly 18, 2007Gary PlayerCARNOUSTIE, SCOTLAND STEWART McDOUGALL: Ladies and gentlemen, we have Gary Player. Gary, thank you for coming across here on what's a pretty horrible day outside. Gary, it's almost 40 years since you won The Open Championship here. Things have changed a lot since then. Tell us some recollections of your win here, at that time, any particular shots that stick in your memory of that win. GARY PLAYER: Well, I certainly have wonderful memories of Carnoustie. It was always known as one of the ten toughest golf courses in the world, depending on if you played it in calm conditions or hard conditions. I was the only one to break 290, but it was very windy and there was quite a bit of rough. And I came back later and played again when Tom Watson and Jack Newton tied, and we had a drought and there was no wind and the ground was hot and no rough and I think they broke 280. It depends a lot on the weather, which is typical of links golf courses. My recollection is playing down from the 14th in with Jack Nicklaus and there were five of us within one stroke of each other, could have gone either way. I hit my driver on the right-hand side of the fairway and I could see that flag whipping in the breeze, the Spectacle hole. I hit the 3-wood eight inches from the hole, which gave me a two-shot advantage and I made that, which is difficult because the last five holes at Carnoustie are particularly tough. But unlike Van de Velde, I had a little bit of better course management, I'm happy to say. I felt very sorry for him at the time. In fact, my wife watching him was crying in our suite because she likes Van de Velde. I had a two-shot lead over Jack, and I took a 2-iron off the tee. And Van de Velde should have taken two 5-irons when he was there. In fact, he was unlucky not to go in the water. He hit the driver and it bounced on the side of the street and everyone said it was unlucky; if he had gone in the creek he would have won because he would have had to lay up. Jack could reach the last hole, and I thought he could get an eagle and I get a par, but I went to the law of averages and I did the right thing. So this golf course has had many fine champions and the finest champion ever, who I think -- I've never seen a guy play like Ben Hogan in my life, and I've played with them all. I don't know what you would do if you gave Ben Hogan no spike marks on the greens, with the soft spikes that they have now and the grooves and the lightweight shafts, et cetera, et cetera, I don't know how well he would have played. Because I've never seen anybody hit the ball like he hit from tee-to-green. Now, for those of you who were around when he played, he was saying I'd like to have brought a mower with me from America to cut the greens, because they didn't have the mowers those days to cut the greens very short and they were very rough and bumpy, and I think he still shot 283. I don't know what he shot, but he came over once and won it and he came over a month before. And the sad thing is, the very sad thing is that he, in my opinion, without a question, would have won the Grand Slam in one year, but unlike Tiger and Ernie and all these guys with their G5s, they finish here Sunday night, they're actually back in their bed Sunday night. He had to go back -- well, whatever he did, he couldn't get back to play in the PGA, which to me is always one of the saddest things I've seen in golf because he won all three. He was at the prime of his career. If you see movies of him swinging that year, I've never seen a golf swing like this, ever. Sam Snead was the next closest to it, but an actual golf swing, I never saw a swing like Hogan, and he couldn't get back to play the PGA. Q. Should Tiger win this year, could you put that into some sort of historical context? GARY PLAYER: I think the most talented man to ever put a golf club in a set of hands is Tiger. I've never seen anybody who has the ability that Tiger Woods has. Nothing surprises me. Whatever he does is not a surprise because he has this enormous talent. When he starts hitting more fairways off the tee, there's just no telling what will happen in golf. When you think the number of times he's played out of the rough, if you watch TV and you just look at the stats, and he's still No. 1 is remarkable. When he -- last year what he did in The Open was masterful. Nobody in the galleries likes to see a man hit an iron off every tee. They go to here to watch Tiger hit his driver. They love to see people hit drivers. But he realised the challenge and he played it in a masterful way. There's no telling how well he'll do in his career. Nothing surprises me. Q. Going off of what you said about Hogan, hypothetically, given modern equipment, off the first tee tomorrow, who wins? GARY PLAYER: It's a very hard thing to answer that, and I'll tell you why, because Ben Hogan was a particularly good putter as a young man. If you take them both at their prime, would you say Tiger is at his prime or been at his prime or going to be at his prime, what's your opinion? Q. At his prime. GARY PLAYER: Okay, he's at his prime. Very hard. Very hard. You see, people say how far they hit the ball today. Well, any of us that played, none of us had the opportunity of playing with this equipment. If we did, we would all have hit the ball 50 yards further. What would have happened if we all hit the ball 50 yards further, and had a dimple ball that hits the ball straighter, and at 72 I drive straighter than I did when I was in my prime. So it's very hard -- but when you talk about superstars -- and I don't know how you'd classify a superstar. In my opinion you classify it as any man who wins five Majors and over. When you compare superstars, there's always so little in it. They both had great minds. Hogan was far better from tee-to-green, but Woods has a better little lob shot over the traps and probably a better putter, I think. I've never seen -- Bobby Locke, Bob Charles, there were some marvelous putters, but I don't know of anybody who ever putted better than Tiger. So I call it a tie. That's being diplomatic (laughter). Q. In 1968 there were only two players who broke 70. Could you perceive something like that happening again over the next few days? GARY PLAYER: You know, this golf course is a sleeping giant. It's a giant when the wind blows, when conditions are difficult. And when it isn't, on a calm day, it's not all that tough. We play many golf courses around the world that are very, very tough. But the thing that makes this golf course is that wee breeze; just a two-club wind here just changes everything. So you will see a lot of scores. When it's soft like this it lends itself to great scoring. So if we don't have wind you'll see a lot of very, very good scores this week, a lot of very good scores. If you have wind, that's a different story. Really it's an amazing golf course when that wind blows, how it changes, absolutely amazing. But if there's no wind, they'll score very, very well. Particularly today, I played this morning in that pouring rain, I went and played nine holes and just get over how I put the ball in the rough and I took my clubs out and that ball just came out, hit the green and actually came back. And I said to this Scot I was playing with, I said, I never saw that ever, ever, playing in my life, in my prime, ever. When you hit it in the rough, the ball always came out with top-spin because of the grooves. So now they drive it in the rough, they can stop the ball. And putting, I think Tiger Woods, what Tiger Woods has done has been a remarkable young man around the world. He's had a great influence just in people in general, but it's been very encouraging for the continent of Africa where I live, where we have the majority, not the minorities. For me to live at a time where Tiger Woods and Vijay Singh, there was a period when they were one and two, the two best players were black. We never, ever thought that would happen in our time. There weren't many black players competing in the world that were world champions, and it was very encouraging for people in my country and people all over the world. So Tiger Woods has played a vital role. His work ethic has been a tremendous role model. I think really what we're looking for today -- I am, certain people are not. I always look for role models because the youth of the nation -- the youth of the world today are in serious trouble. Obesity is probably the greatest trouble facing the world today. More people are dying of obesity than all the wars put together. A man like Tiger Woods who works out, and people see this world champion, he's world champion because he works out, and he has this phenomenal mind, which young people starting to play realise, you don't become a champion from striking the ball well. And also that he hasn't hit the fairways like Ben Hogan did, for example. And yet he's No. 1 through all these attributes, so people are watching this man and copying him. And it's a very healthy sign of things, making young people realise, it doesn't matter what degree you have, you just don't automatically go out and make a living, because competition is severe, as it always has been. His work ethic, both on and off the golf course, and he takes his hat off in victory and defeat. Young people eat with their hats on at the dinner table. But I'm a big Tiger Woods fan. Q. We were fortunate enough to see you coming back to play Majors well into your 60s. How sad are you to see that Seve has had to pack in at the age of 50? GARY PLAYER: I'm very sad because Seve was a superstar. Seve Ballesteros balance was the Arnold Palmer, charismatic-wise, of Europe. He was a man of great charisma in Europe. He did an awful lot for golf in Europe. It's a very young age to retire. I qualified at the Masters, I made the cut at 62 and I won my last tournament at 63. So it's a very short career. He should be actually, in the last ten years, he should have been in his prime. Really he should have been in his prime. Jack Nicklaus won The Masters at 46. I won The Masters at 42. Very sad. A man with such charisma who loved golf as much as anybody I've ever seen. I can take five players in my lifetime that I can say they loved golf. We all love golf, but they loved it more. It meant so much in their lives. My friend said to me, do you miss not playing in The Open? I said, no, not at all. He said a person who was as hungry as you are, you don't? I said no, because I had a feast; I played in 46 straight British Opens. I won three, and I'm very happy. But some people, they love it so much, and for Seve to have to exit at such a young age, for me, and I know it, I know how it hurts him. And I feel very sad for him because I really like Seve very much. I just wish he could have gone on. But he still did very well. There's always two sides of the story. He does extremely well. He loved golf so much, he would have liked to have prolonged his career. He would have liked to have prolonged his career. Q. Going back to what you said about fitness, how would you compare the average Tour player's awareness about fitness now compared to when you started? As a follow-up to that, when the Tour starts testing for steroids next year, would it surprise you if a player tested positive? GARY PLAYER: No, not at all. First of all, let me say that that's a wonderful question. This is a very interesting question because people only remember what's happening today. Unfortunately I've been through the mill, so I can make comparisons. One golf manufacturer said they're hitting the ball further today. He didn't want to admit the ball and the clubs hit the ball further. It's a fact that the ball goes 50 yards further today than when we played. It's a fact. He was reluctant to say it. He said, the reason they hit it further today is because they're stronger. That is not true. If you take George Bayer, there isn't a man playing the Tour today that was stronger than George Bayer. Mike Souchak, there isn't a man stronger than him. I could give you players that are definitely stronger than the guys today, but the guys today are fitter. Now, there's a vast difference between being strong and fit. I can name very few -- you know that Arnold Palmer, if he had an arm wrestle with Tiger Woods, I can tell you Arnold would put him down. He's the only man who picked up a gold bar in the history of our country. They told him, anybody who can pick up this gold bar can have it, and Arnold did it. How about Jack Nicklaus? How about JC Snead? I can go through guys that were so strong, they were unbelievably strong. But today you're doing more aerobic exercises and they are fitter. The last part of your question -- Q. When the Tour tests for steroids, would it surprise you to find there are players who are using them? GARY PLAYER: No, not surprise me because I know, I know that there are golfers, some of them are doing -- whether it's HGH, whether it's creatine or whether it's steroids, I know for a fact that some golfers are doing it. And the greatest thing that The R&A, the USGA and the PGA can do is have tests at random. It's absolutely essential that we do that. We're dreaming if we think it's not going to come into golf. You look at these rugby teams today, and I followed rugby all my life, it's so obvious what is happening. It would be interesting, they asked me last night, what percentage of athletes, men and women in the world are using one of those three enhancements. Let's put the word as enhancement. And I said I think 40 percent of athletes in the world. I've changed my mind overnight; I think it's almost 50 to 60 percent of athletes in the world today. I'm not saying golfers, I'm saying just across the board with all sports. Q. What do you think the number is in golf? GARY PLAYER: Well, I'd be guessing. I'd be guessing. But I think it would be -- you want me to take a guess? Q. A guess. GARY PLAYER: I would say in the World Tour today, golfers around the world playing Tour, I would say there's ten guys taking something. I might be way out. Definitely not going to be lower, but might be a hell of a lot more. And I'm delighted to see that they're going to start having tests at random, if that's what they officially have decided. Q. How do you know for a fact that there are people using enhancements, as you say? GARY PLAYER: Because one guy told me. One guy told me and I took an oath prior to him telling me, and he told me and I won't tell you where, but he told me what he did and I could see this massive change in him and then -- and somebody else told me something that I also promised I wouldn't tell that verified others had done it. Q. What enhancement do you think would help somebody in golf and how, just pure strength? GARY PLAYER: You see, we don't know -- nobody really knows that. People like to profess that they know that. Every doctor that I go to, every single doctor that I go to says, Gary, you're shrinking. I said, I'm aware of that. It's an interesting thing, I went back, I did a Rolex day here about a month ago, and I went to the 14th -- I stopped on the 13th, but I went to the 14th and I hit this 3-wood and I said, how the hell did I ever reach that green into the wind? Because this is 40 years later. And it made me realise how much stronger I was. And every doctor I go to, without fail, says, Gary, you must take HGH, human growth hormones, every single doctor. He said it will make your stronger, your skin will be thicker, because your skin starts to get scaly, your hair is stronger, your complexion will be better, you'll be more supple. How could I be more supple than I am, I'm very supple. He said you'll start hitting the ball 20 to 30 yards further. I said really I've done everything I wanted to do in golf. I've got 20 grandchildren, I want to enjoy my life with them and I don't want to take it because I'm not sure what it will do to me. Now yesterday, a friend of mine's son in America, his best friend, the coach told him to get on the stuff, human growth hormones. He got on to it, he says that this young man was having rages, he was irritable, he wanted to punch the wall. He said you could never see such a change in a human being's mannerisms. It affects everybody differently. Who knows what it does. If you look at Ben Johnson when he won the Olympics, if you saw the color of his eyes, we don't really know. It's all very well for someone to say get on that. We know what happened in Eastern Europe in the Olympics. We know what happened in cycling; they're admitting it now. They're admitting it. So what is it going to do to your health? But they all said in a survey, not so long ago, they said to athletes, if you could win a gold medal in the Olympic Games and you can live ten years or you didn't win a medal and you have the rest of your life, 80 percent said I'll take the gold medal and die in ten years. I understand that because if you want something bad enough and dedicate your life to it, you want to achieve it. It's hard for a person on the street to understand that point of view. Me, I'd take the life. But I can look at the other side and I understand that. We have to be careful about what is it doing to your health and what is it like down the road? Nobody knows. But that doesn't matter. These guys, these athletes want to do so well. It's not prevalent in golf yet. It's prevalent in other sports, as we all know for a fact. But every doctor, that's the scary thing is that every doctor I go, it isn't one that says I think you should take it. It's every one, I would say in the last five years, nine different doctors, I've spoken to them and sat down on the subject and everyone said take it. They even take it in college now. STEWART McDOUGALL: Gary, thank you very much, indeed. As always, very interesting and entertaining. Thank you. End of FastScripts |
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