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U.S. OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

June 12, 2007

Johnny Miller

OAKMONT, PENNSYLVANIA

RAND JERRIS: It's a pleasure to welcome to the interview room Johnny Miller, the 1973 United States Open Champion.
Maybe you can start us off by reflecting on the 1973 U.S. Open. What do you recall most distinctly and what does that victory mean to you today?

JOHNNY MILLER: Well, it sure seems big this week. It's like I'm on a state monument or something when I go around the course. People embrace me and there's a bit of history, and I'm sort of a part of them. It's really a cool feeling out there. I've never felt that anywhere before that I've ever gone, where people -- it's sort of, I'm their Johnny, you know? I've been everywhere, but that round is pretty historic, and it's sort of a benchmark. At first Oakmont, I don't think, loved it too much, but, you know, it brought a lot of notoriety to Oakmont, that round. People keep talking about it; every year they talk about it. So it keeps Oakmont's name out there a little bit more than maybe it would have.
73 was just a dream round. I'm out there with Tiger and I'm out with different players and they go, how the heck did you shoot 63? But what they don't realize is that I only had 29 putts that round. That's probably as historical as any part of the round. I mean, you just don't shoot 63 at Oakmont with 29 putts. I hit the ninth green in two and every other green in regulation, and I never had a downhill putt in 18 holes.
The only putt that had any downslope in it was 16; I hit it left of the hole on purpose when the pin was way right, and the first part of the putt is level and the last part just barely tails off over the hill.
So it was, you know, sort of like a round that you were sleeping at night and you were able to place the ball where you wanted in your dreams, and I just happened to do it during the daytime, for real, in the last round. A lot of people say -- even Dan Jenkins said that round wasn't any better than Tom Weiskopf's or Nicklaus's 63 at Baltusrol, but theirs was in the first round at Baltusrol where all of the Opens in the record have been set, and mine was in the last round to win by one and overtake five Hall of Fame players. So I don't know what Dan was smoking that day but -- (laughter).
I don't think it was really a comparable round. It's one thing to do it on the first day. It's another thing to do it on the last day. Not trying to pat myself on the back. I'm trying to be what I think is accurate as I can, and it was just, tee-to-green, it was under pressure, the best round I've ever seen. And I've seen quite a few rounds.
Tiger Woods played a better Open. The best performance in history was Tiger Woods in Pebble, no doubt, greatest performance ever in an Open, and if you go to the second level, you probably have to go to that round. But I give Tiger No. 1 priority, because we watched him 72 holes, never lipped out one putt in 72 holes, which is impossible, and to my knowledge he never missed a putt inside eight feet on those bumpy greens at Pebble, which is impossible.
That's the most amazing thing I've seen. That round at Oakmont was just a dream round and made my career. I was a young guy, with Lanny Watkins. We were the five young thunderbirds for Ford Motor Company, and they were pushing that with the next stars, and Player and Weiskopf and all of those young guys out there.
That pushed me to the forefront, that last round, and I pretty much took the ball and ran with it. A lot of guys, you win an Open and you don't hear from them. After that Open, I won a lot of tournaments in the next couple of years. That was the catalyst, that was what opened the flood gates.

Q. There's almost an ethereal feel to some of the stuff that was going on that week, I guess some clairvoyant lady came up to you, and you got a letter on Sunday, and then voices in your head, and then the rain and all that?

JOHNNY MILLER: Yeah, the rain part of it was a fact, but it was something that the Oakmont members tried to push; they left the sprinklers on all night and it rained all night, which obviously it helped. There's no doubt about that.
But yeah, this lady was very accurate. She came up to me on Tuesday and said, "You're going to win the U.S. Open on the 18th green." I go, "Yeah, hi, how are you doing? Do you want an autograph?" No. She didn't want an autograph, just wanted to tell me I was going to win the Open.
I said, "That's very nice of you to say," and didn't think anything of it. I saw her Wednesday and, okay, that's nice. I go in and get my tee times right after I see her, and I go in the locker room and I'm paired with Arnold Palmer -- the best part of that week was winning at Oakmont playing with Arnold Palmer in 1973 in Pittsburgh. Not many guys would ever win playing with Arnold Palmer in 1973 the first two days.
So for me to get through the gauntlet of Arnold Palmer and his fans, to shoot 69-71, to be able to do that with his fans was almost to me, as much pressure as anything that happened all week. Maybe that prepared me for Sunday, to be honest with you, the pressure of Sunday. Because not many guys could play with Arnie in those days. Definitely maybe tougher than playing with Tiger; in Pittsburgh, with Arnold Palmer in 1973.
The lady after reach round said "You're right on track, don't worry about it." On Saturday I forgot my yardage card and the USGA in those days said, you can't bring your regular caddie to the Opens. I don't know who came up with that theory. Maybe they wanted everybody to have Ray Charles caddying, I'm not sure. (Laughter). I don't know what the thinking was of that.
My caddie was a nice guy, "Sweet Lou" I called him, a local guy, and of course there were no lasered or measured yardages, just a guy's walk. One guy would say on a par 3 it's 173, 174, another guy maybe 176, but totally different yardages every hole. Of course I didn't ask this guy for yardage, because I did all of my own yardages, but I forgot my book on the night stand. I was staying at Julius' beach's house, and I told my wife on the first tee after I didn't have it -- I just went crazy, because my iron game was very precise.
If there's any greens in the world that one or two yards can make the difference between birdies and bogeys, it's these. In those days, there was no sprinkler heads, there was nothing. So I got immediately so nervous and a shot of adrenaline and nervousness and 5-over after seven, so that was another part of the story that was huge. I mean, that cost me probably three, four, five shots, because I was playing pretty good.
She got me the yardage card up on the 10th tee, and I settled in pretty good and finished the round 5-over. I was looking for the lady, you're wrong, I was going to tell her. I've blown myself out of this thing.
Sunday I did get a letter in my locker, no return address, just says, "You are going to win the U.S. Open." From Iowa. I said, well, you're wrong, too, pal.
But then that round started. I did have a clear three voices come into my head, open your stance way up -- because the first two times it said it to me, I was sort of down. I was really down. Because I started to believe this lady, you know. I was thinking, I got through Arnold Palmer, the lady is still there, things are going good, maybe I am going to win.
I came close at Pebble the year before on the 5th hole, the par 3 up the hill. I was one back on Sunday, right at the pin, going for it in 2, buried under the lip of the bunker in an unplayable lie and had to drive. The year before at Merion, I was fifth, and I did well at Houston as a pro; I shot 77 the first round there. At the Olympic Club I finished eighth.
So I was like an Open player growing up at Olympic Club and Pebble. I thought, well maybe it is my turn to win the Open. But that clear voice said, "Open it up." I thought, well I don't know if I really want to try this, but it was the most amazing round of golf, tee-to-green. I mean, I would love to have Ben Hogan caddying for me because I believe Ben Hogan would have said, "You've got to be kidding me."
He's a religious word in golf, but I tell you, that round of golf, every hole, right at the pin, dead underneath the hole, 18 times, average about nine feet from the hole. And you know, you can say what you want, sounds like I'm bragging but the bottom line, it was a crazy round. That's all I can tell you.
So when guys ask me, the players go, "Geez, how did you shoot that?" Acting like they can't do it, but they can do it. It can be done again. Obviously if I did it, I'm nothing that special. I was a good iron player, obviously, but Tiger could do it and Phil could do it. But I will say getting to Oakmont itself that now, all of the changes they have made at Oakmont, this is the finest golf course in the world. Better than Pine Valley ever thought of being, better than Cypress ever thought of being. This is now the greatest course in the world, the way -- the agronomy, the way the bunkers are skulled, the depth of the bunkers, the church pews, the greens, the shot values, the trees taken out, you combine it all, this is the greatest course in the world.
If you want to test yourself, see if you are a golfer, this is where you come to find out. Like Sergio said, you have to drive it great, your irons have to be unbelievable. You are not going to scramble around here for pars unless you're making 20-footers. Normally at an Open, you're making 12-footers for par. In a PGA TOUR event you're scrambling for 5-footers for par. Normal major championships, at Augusta, maybe 12-, 13-foot putts for par, here, it's 25-foot putts. The way the greens run out, you have to make long putts for par.
If you analyze the last Open in '94 and say, okay, we have three guys in the playoff, what did they bring to the table, you have the best putter in the world in Loren Roberts, who used that to get him in the playoff; you've got the finest ball-striker without a doubt in the world in Colin Montgomerie, hitting high fades to those hard greens, in the playoff; and then you've got Ernie Els at the top of his game with his power and his great short game, able to muscle it out of the rough, in the playoff.
That covers a lot of territory, I know, but it took the best putter in the world, the best-ball striker in the world, and the power player at the top of his game in the world to get in that playoff.
So it's going to require something similar this time around. It will require an A Game, unless everybody has B, C and D games. Somebody will be playing well. I'm not saying they can do it for four days. But it's not par 70; I'm not even going to say it's a par 70 on TV, I don't think. This is not a par 70. It's just not a par 70. It's at least par 71. Let's not kid ourselves. Go out and look at holes like 3, 7, 9, 10, 15 and 18. Those are the most rugged par 4s in the history of golf together. Winged Foot had the standard before this week. But those holes are so brutally tough. 18 looks like you couldn't march a one-man marching band down it, it's so narrow. That green is crazy. The front of the green, if you hit it there and it stops there, it rolls back 75 feet from ten feet on the green. It rolls back 75 feet down in the spot where there's nothing but divot holes.
So that's going to be entertaining, too. So you know, a lot to talk about as an announcer. I feel like it's my -- highlight of my career to be back here, highlight of my year to be at any U.S. Open, but this is a treat for me. I just want you to know, this is a real treat. This is the E-ticket ride for me.
That was a long answer, wasn't it? (Laughter). That was the opening for the show on Thursday.

Q. Wondering whether you think that Tiger and Phil Mickelson is a legitimate rivalry and whether you're as eager as so many other people are to see them kind of go battle it down the stretch at a major?

JOHNNY MILLER: I think it's a fantastic rivalry. I think Tiger really respects Phil. Tiger really knows that Phil has been a phenomenal player since he was five years old. Those kind of players come along about every ten years, a Crenshaw-type player, Nicklaus-type player, Tiger-type player. Charles Howell was that type of player.
Doral was a really nice tournament, it's the World Golf Championships now, but that dual they had at Doral, people still talk about it. Vijay is close to those two; Ernie was close to those two, but those two are definitely separated from the rest of the guys. I have a lot of respect for Vijay, too. He's had the greatest run in his 40s, better than anybody, including Sam Snead. But Vijay, actually it's amazing how we regard him, because most guys in their mid 40s we would not even be putting in the same category.
Phil is the most interesting guy in the world to watch to me, and the most interesting guy in the world to cover on TV, because he tries a lot of things that are just like, wow, is this going to be fun to talk about this. And then Tiger hits it in spots that he does. He does things like nobody since Arnold Palmer did. Nobody can recover like Tiger. And of course when he's on his game, he sets the standards every time.
Tiger can make three Hall of Fame careers in one person; Phil can make two, Tiger can make three or four. It's a pleasure for me to be able to cover those guys since they were little kids. I sort of ushered them in on TV golf and definitely ushered Tiger in with his Amateur wins and even went to the Junior Amateurs that he won. So I feel like I've just been watching this kid, every swing change, every maturation progression. It's been great. It's been a pleasure for me.

Q. The 8th hole is becoming infamous for perhaps a 300-yard par 3, and then the 12th, a non-reachable in two par 5. I just wonder your thoughts, where they are going and where golf is going?

JOHNNY MILLER: I think there should be a plaque on the 300-yard tee that said, "In 1927, one guy reached the green on this 255-yard par 3." That might put it in perspective. Can you imagine playing that hole with gutta percha balls? Tiger is hitting a 3-wood there. Talking to Hank Haney, he can knock it on there 300 yards easy with a draw 3-wood.
In the old days they used to play par 3s 250 when guys could not hit it 250. I'm not going to cry for the guys, is what I'll say. Putting it in front of the green is fantastic, just short of the green is fantastic, you can just chip it up the hill and make your par. It's not like you have an island green at 300 yards.

Q. And the 12th has become the "longest hole in history"?

JOHNNY MILLER: It doesn't play any longer than the 16th at Olympic Club, because that would be a rolling fairway, dogleg-left; it's a downhill hole.
The one thing, I don't know if they did it for me, but I said the last couple of years on the air that my thinking was, let's not make the fairways where you get 60 or 70 yards of roll just so the ball will run into the rough.
When Vijay Singh, after two or three rounds at Shinnecock, was dead last in driving accuracy and No. 1 in greens hit, that should have made Ben Hogan puke. Think about it, dead last in driving accuracy, and the guy is No. 1 in greens hits. That can't be what the USGA wanted. But the reason why that happened is that not only was the rough a little skimpy, but the ball was rolling 60, 80 yards, so those holes were just a driver and 9-iron or wedge for those guys.
Let the fairways be where there's 10 to 25 yards of hole so the 480 yards holes are mid-iron for these guys. Let them hit it 290 off the tee and give them a 90-yard second shot, maybe a 200-yard second shot. Isn't that what these hard fours are supposed to do? What you've got this week is what I consider a perfect setup; a perfect shot will end up stiff at the hole. Greens do hold enough to stop it stiff, and the fairways are not running out so the side slopes like 18 and 15. The ball is not rolling like it was at 17 at Olympic Club, where you hit it in the left side of the fairway, it rolls over in the right rough because the fairway is sticking out at 16.5.
I like the fairways where it's true yardage. Nobody ever talks about the 73 final round. They all say the greens were holding, but what they don't say is the greens were playing nine miles that day. I was hitting 3-irons, 4-irons, 5-irons. You were getting ten yards of roll. That to me makes it better ball-striking. If you hit it in the rough, you're screwed because hitting in the rough is like hitting in a can of water.
I think the course is set up great that much right now. I hope it doesn't get much drier. I know you guys want it to be drier. Remember this: When you make a championship so ridiculous, you can get ridiculous winners. You can get winners that will never win ever again, just happened to have a hot week putting or a good bounce here and there. But when you look at, let's say, a Doral. Every year at Doral, Greg Norman would win, Tiger Woods would win, Floyd would win, Nicklaus would win; never would you get anything but an A-plus player. Isn't that what we are trying to identify? We are trying to identify the A-plus player, not the only guy to survive, that can hardly make a cut on the Tour.
I guess I was talking to the USGA -- anybody here? (Laughter). It's recorded.
I think they are good comments, though. I think a great shot should be a great shot, and rewarded as a great shot.

Q. In 1973 did you visit the church pews at all during the tournament and curious what your thoughts are on the bunker, the church pews between 3 and 4?

JOHNNY MILLER: The church pews are definitely in play on 4. I did not visit them in '73. They are definitely -- playing 4 and 5 with a quick hook, guys are going to be thinking about it, because you can get one of those PLAYERS Championship breaks there if you get unlucky. If it rolls up into the bank, you've got to probably go outside a ways. But these bunkers, a bunch of bunkers, I did all of my homework today. There are a bunch of bunkers that are eight, nine, ten feet deep out on the golf course, ten feet deep bunkers. Like left of 17, that front bunker on 11, the bunker right on 13. There's some really deep bunkers out there. These bunkers are great bunkers, great bunkers. You don't want to go in them, though.

Q. What do you think will be the winning score this week?

JOHNNY MILLER: Winning score, you know, it seems like 279, 280 has been sort of the magical number in the past -- have you guys done your homework?
That could be shot, no doubt about it, these guys are great. But a lot of the nay sayers are saying ridiculously high scores. But there's always somebody that can have a good tournament, championship. I really believe that a great score will be 279, which will tie my score and tie a bunch of the other winning scores. Very likely that 284 could win. 284 is a nice number, isn't it, four 71s? That would be pretty nice. That would be pretty juicy. All depends on if the greens can hold the shots. Holes like 1, 10, those holes were designed in hell, okay, the greens, either that or the back part of them fell into hell. And if they get too hard, you can't play those holes very good.
No. 1 is the hardest opening hole in the word. If you miss that fairway on No. 1, as they would say -- "Forget about it." If you try to go for that green, you're going to make a big number a lot of the times. Just hit it in the fairway, if you have a brain.

Q. A couple of weeks ago before the Memorial you said that you thought this would be a fantastic Open for Phil and that he could win by as many as six shots. How does that change with his wrist and the rough?

JOHNNY MILLER: I got the feeling with Mickelson he was absolutely at the top of his career, top of his game, with what happened on Sunday at THE PLAYERS Championship. He found that tightened-up swing and that cut shot which would work at Oakmont perfectly and the momentum from THE PLAYERS Championship would be amazing, and then he hits his left wrist.
I wish him the best. He's doing a lot of great things with Butch. Even Rick Smith in the background and Dave Pelz, his preparation. I think he overprepared, I guess. Probably hit so many chip shots and pitch shots out of that rough that in anybody it would create some inflammation. His diligence in hitting for an hour around every green -- he never had an injury that I know of. So I think he just overdid it.
I wish him the best. I hope the cortisone shot, if that's what he had, works. I hope that he's 100% and I hope that Tiger and Phil and Vijay and Zach Johnson are all there like they were 1973 the last round. Every top player was within a couple of shots of the lead, Weiskopf and Boros and Trevino and Palmer Gary Player. Every one of those guys was there when I won. I hope that happens this week.

Q. This is the last major that's got an 18-hole playoff. Do you like it; do you think it's time to change?

JOHNNY MILLER: The playoff, you know, in a perfect world it would finish in about three or four o'clock maybe and then -- if we knew it was going to be a playoff. And I think about a six-hole playoff would be nice, maybe even a three-hole playoff like the British -- isn't the British three? Three or four? You've got plenty of time in four holes to see who is choking, I can tell you that.
One hole is no good, obviously. But the next day is a little anticlimactic. But if I was running the Open, I probably wouldn't change anything. It's just part of the Open history. Even though for TV it's a lot better to finish on Sunday, but for the National Championship, what the heck, you know. I'd go 18 holes I guess.

Q. Just to follow on that, I don't know if you were at Newport or not on Sunday, but we had a 36-hole final with Annika and Pat Hurst playing together for 36 holes and then they are going to go play 18 holes. It almost seemed at that point do you need 54 holes to decide who is playing the best?

JOHNNY MILLER: I don't know if any playoff -- you hate to rest the championship on a playoff.
I like what the British Open does. I really think with those long days they have there, I guess they can go until 11:00 at night if they wanted, I guess. With their long days, a three or four-hole playoff is a great thing, I think. It's definitely high tension. The tension never let's up with three or four holes.
So I'd be teetering on changing to the three or four hole. Part of me would be stick with tradition.

Q. You said that this was the greatest course in the world pretty much. If the conditions change to where it's better to be lucky than good out here, to where, you know, it gets to be where you get the good hop, you get the good -- and somebody wins that you don't ever see win again, will your opinion of that change at all?

JOHNNY MILLER: Shinnecock was I thought the greatest course tee-to-green in the world. But we lost the U.S. Open there last time around. The USGA lost the 7th hole, and to me, it took away from what Shinnecock is.
I think the USGA really learned a lot of good lessons at Shinnecock. I don't think that's ever going to happen again in the next, at least ten years. I don't think the USGA would let the greens get that hard again.
The second hole, to be honest with you, if it got too hard is almost unplayable. It's almost like the 18th hole -- very similar to the 18th hole at Olympic Club, very similar, very similar.
So I think the USGA is really on top of it. I think they are using their head. I think they are keeping the course a little bit softer. I don't know who came up with this hard and fast stuff, because I don't think you always produce the best winner with hard and fast. I really believe that you want it where a great shot is a great shot. Not a great shot is like No. 10 at Shinnecock that you have to play left of the green with a sand wedge. That, to me, is not golf.
That was the way to play the 10th hole at Shinnecock, was aim in the left rough with a wedge and chip sideways on to the green. You can't tell me that's golf. That's not a great shot being a great shot. That's a great shot being in a crappy shot but that was better than everywhere else.
So I'm hoping that we've learned from that. I hate to have it where the players want to win the Open as much as any championship in the world but totally hate the Championship. And we have gotten there a couple of times lately where the Sergios of the world, love to say to you, "I love the Open, it's great." He could not answer your question there about the Open being his favorite place to be. I would like to see it again where it is just the way it is today. They play it just the way it is today, fairways soft enough, greens soft enough, greens not too crazy-fast, where if you shoot a great round, you can shoot a 63 or 64 or 65, but if you play bad, you shoot 80. That's the way it should be.
I hope it stays where it is right now. If it does, you won't hear any complaints from me this week. There's huge mojo going on. Felt great vibrations from Tiger Woods. He looks like he's right on his game. I feel that way about Phil and Vijay and so it should be a great week. So thanks a lot, you guys.
RAND JERRIS: Thanks for your time.

End of FastScripts

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