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THE INTERNATIONAL

August 4, 2004

Jack Vickers, Jr.

CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO

THE MODERATOR: Mr. Jack Vickers, president and founder of the Castle Pines Golf Club. This is the 19th year, Mr. Vickers. Your floor.

JACK VICKERS: Here we are again, 19th tournament. I'm some of you, Joe, some of y'all have been here most every one of them, haven't you?

I think we're going to have a good tournament. Looks like the weather is treating us so far so good. Knowing Colorado though, can't count on that. Probably get a few thunderstorms pulling in. Anyway I hope we get a break in the weather from what it's been, as y'all have seen the golf course. Mother Nature's really helped us this year and in the condition of the course. I think it's the best shape it's ever been in. Particularly noticeable is the rough, what it's done there. We've got a lot more grass and with the new bentgrass, we have got on the greens, we've got a lot more grass on there, too.

Matter of fact, as an aside our superintendent the other day, Marshall, told me that we had enough grass on those greens that he could really cut it down and probably get it going about 14 on the Stimpmeter. We've never had that before. That's something new. Of course we are not shooting to do that, but we will have good speed on the greens for the tournament.

I'm really happy with the new bent, 16 of 18 greens done now. I think that's going to be an improvement for us. Those are just a few little things that those of that you have been out there that have seen the condition of the place, it's really first class. I don't think you can get it much better than it is right now.

Q. There's been some talk this year about giving some consideration after next year's tournament of making a plea for a new date. If you had your druthers, what week are you thinking would be good at this point?

JACK VICKERS: I guess it's kind of an age old subject, isn't it? Tell you the truth, I don't know what the best date is. There's always something. I've got a couple thoughts on the subject matter, but, you know, you can pick a date. But it depends a little bit on how the PGA TOUR manages their business. It's a situation this year where we lost some players, up to next week's event, Whistling Straits, is one of those unfortunate situations. I don't criticize the guys for running up there. But it doesn't make it the best for the PGA TOUR, I don't believe. And the course is apparently going to be set up pretty tough up there and a lot of them are really leery of it because they have not played there before. So as they get more experience, that will die down and I can understand some of the feelings about it.

I guess one question I would have is why the PGA TOUR doesn't consider not having an event the week before a major. In my own opinion, and it's strictly my opinion, I think we have too many tournaments out there as it is. I think by cutting back on the number of events, we could improve the quality and the prestige of the PGA and improve the ratings, improve the returns for the sponsors. All in all, I think we could improve the whole PGA TOUR situation. We're going to have some conversation about it, at least from my corner, and I hope some of the others feel as I do. And for some time, if you just talk around, I'm sure you have, there are a number of players that think and felt that there have been probably too many tournaments on the calendar out there.

I'd like to see the Tour itself improved with probably cutting down on the size of the field a little bit and improving and those that get knocked off go down to the Champions Tour, and that improves it and improves the ratings and the whole quality of that tour. And let the ones that get knocked off there go down to the third tour and they can improve each one of those individually and do better by their sponsors and have a better year of events than they have right now the way it is.

And eventually at the end of that third tour, some fellows are going to be knocked off, and I would love to see the PGA TOUR start an effort along the lines of a Speaker's Bureau where you're not just tossing them out in the street. The guys at the end of the third tour that get left out, let the PGA TOUR and golf in general work together and provide jobs for those fellows and let them work their way on to the tours and on up the scale of the three tours and keep them as a part of the game, rather than throwing them out on the street. I think with effort on enough people's part that can be provided. I'd like to liken it to the Speaker's Tour. I think something along that general line could work and I think it could be pulled off.

Q. Do you anticipate in two years having different dates than this?

JACK VICKERS: I don't anticipate anything right now because as you well, let me just give you a little background.

We asked for this date that we have I will say this. That when we were behind the PGA, major PGA tournament, it was tougher because that's always on a tough golf course, and by the time the fellows get through playing that, they are usually beat up pretty good and we found that they were either coming head in here dragging or they just didn't come in here. So that was not a good, satisfactory answer.

So we went back before the PGA and I think up to this point in time, we've done pretty well. We've got most of the players, and this year as I said unfortunately because of it being at Whistling Straits, and nothing against Whistling Straits, or the players. It's just the fact that in their mind it being tough and of course when Phil Mickelson, I'm sure he's striving to get the Player of the Year award and I don't blame him for that and more power to him, I can't knock him for that. If he wants to go up there and practice ahead of time, that's the way he runs his business and that's part of the game.

I think we have to adjust to those kind of things, though. When you see as many running this as this year it does detract some from the quality of our field, and also it's kind of a slap to our sponsors and I don't like to see that and I don't think the PGA does. I look at this year, it kind of sneaked up on everybody, because of where it is and the difficulty it poses. So just have to see how it all turns out just plan ahead and do the best you can.

I think it's got to be talked through with the PGA TOUR. I don't want to make some comment that's contradictory or at issue with what the Tour wants to do to run their business. This is an observation on my part that could improve the way we run our business. That's my thought on it.

Q. How are you and the talks with the USGA and the ball going or have there been any since last year?

JACK VICKERS: There's a lot of work being done on it. I think there's more and more talk about it. You heard I think the other night at the little affair in Rancho Santa Fe, I think Tiger made some comments about the ball when asked who is doing that announcing the other night Andy North, who of course won a couple Opens as we know. But he posed that question to Tiger and Tiger said, yes, he thought the ball was well, you maybe heard him. He made the comment that he thought it was going too far and they were going to do something about it. He referred to the spin of the ball and maybe kind of governing the thing that way.

The unfortunate and sad thing about the ball is that the USGA just went to sleep. They are 15 years behind where they should have been, and now they are talking about stopping it where it is today and not taking it any further. And I don't get that reasoning and I think it's crazy myself because the ball has gone way too far. All you have to do is go look, starting right here, we are the longest venue on the Tour. Granted we are at altitude, but they are hitting 7 and 8 irons here where they used to hit 3 and 4 irons. So they have literally taken the 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 irons out of the game.

You fellas are all aware, going back to the Hogan, Snead era, and even Nicklaus in the early part of his career, if he could not hit 2 , 3 , 4 iron, you had better just stay home and today it isn't even in play. And par 5s, there isn't any such thing anymore. We all grew up playing golf, gave us three shots, and if you were extra long and had an opportunity now and then, you'd get close or maybe on in two. Today, it's very seldom they don't get on in two and usually most of them aren't even there isn't it's hard to find a three shot par 5 unless you can dogleg it and take it that way.

I think they have taken a lot out of golf, notwithstanding the fact that, as I told you before, I think it's, I don't want to say a shame, but it's I think it's a catastrophe that we have taken the game of golf away from all the great golf courses. They have nowhere to go. They can't expand them, can't thing lengthen them. So if you want to be technical about it on a true test, 95 percent of them are eliminated. I could probably stretch this to 10,000 yards as I said before, but so what? That isn't the answer and doesn't make any sense to me.

And I just think it's a shame that they have taken the ball there and it make what makes things worse, the ball companies are the ones that get irritated with guys like me talking about it, and yet they are still going to have the business whether the ball goes further or shorter. And we are not talking about the everyday club member or public links player, we are talking about championship golf.

So I hope that the pressure keeps going and I hope that they do take action on it. At least they have got the equipment now that they can test it. USGA didn't even have the equipment till a year and a half ago or so. They were just clearly passe with the equipment. There's a lot of feeling about it, and I think from some good people, I think Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklauses and the Bill Campbells and I could go on and on, are in favor of doing something about the ball.

So, the USGA knows who is talking about it. They are getting a lot of pressure on them. I think they have worried about lawsuits way too much. If you're in business, lawsuits are lawsuits, but they have got plenty of money in the till, plenty of insurance to handle any lawsuits. I think they have got to stand up and be counted and run the game, which is what their charge is and that's where they have fallen down and are still falling down. Because I think a correction now is going to be a big correction.

So, we'll see. Time will tell.

Q. Do you think you have a better chance in this campaign now that it's just not maybe you and Jack and Arnie and old school guys saying it, but if you have somebody like Tiger saying it?

JACK VICKERS: Definitely. Definitely, you know, this is a subject that the matter that I've been into and into and into. You get into some of it and some of these guys get you off on technology, and my simple cut through on that is you can talk all night about technology to me. I'm not interested in technology; I'm interested in results.

So take your technology back to the lab and get a golf ball that won't go where it's going today. Get a golf ball that will go 300 yards instead of 370 or 400 yards, and what that takes technologically, go back and get it done. Quit talking about it.

Q. You may not know, Jack, this was the subject of his, shall we say, essay inaudible.

JACK VICKERS: Yes, it was. I asked the Commissioner what he would like for me to talk about. I thought maybe if I could carry a torch on something that was near to their heart and he says, "Oh, talk what you feel."

I said, "Well, we'll talk about the golf ball then, because I think it's the biggest detriment we have got in the game." So that's what I talked about and I'm sure I made some friends and probably made some enemies that night, but that's life. I know that what we are talking about is subject matters that fact speak for themselves. Just look at all of our great golf courses and they are obsolete. We have taken a bunch of great architectural work which I look at as a national treasure and we've destroyed it. I'd liken that to going to our National Art Gallery in Washington with a knife and start cutting up Rembrandts, etc., Etc. I just don't think it's right.

Q. You've had a lot of discussion about altitude in sports. Some people say that you can't play at altitude and then go back and play a level course after a major championship, that's an issue, and yet looking at the records here, I think the last three people to win the PGA all played The INTERNATIONAL the week before. Your comments about that?

JACK VICKERS: Well, I like your stats. I think that tells you something. In addition to that, you know, go back to the old days, you didn't hear Nicklaus or those guys in his era talking about that. They all put their pants on the same way. The altitude affects one as much as the other.

My answer to that, if the great players are saying that the altitude bothers them going from here to a major, I'd say they have got a little work to do on their golf game. That would tell me that that distances the Nicklauses of the world as being the greatest player of the all time even further. You didn't hear them talking about altitude.

And going back even further, the old guys, as you can remember back, they played 18 on Friday, 18 on Saturday, 36 on Sunday, weren't in airplanes flying around like today. Just get in the car and drive to the next place and play in 100 degree temperature. And the guys are talking about a few thousand feet in altitude bugging their golf game, I would say they have got some work to do.

End of FastScripts.

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