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NHL STANLEY CUP FINALS: FLAMES v LIGHTNING

June 2, 2004

Colin Campbell

TAMPA, FLORIDA: Practice Day

Q. I am just curious as to the difference in this incident as to the Cory Stillman hit in Game 1 on Nilson. What is the difference there? Why no suspension there and there is one here?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Is this your question or are you responding to the club's queries?
Q. I thought of that myself.
COLIN CAMPBELL: I am not being smart here, I am just saying that was -- the club asked that question and it's fair. It's a fair question from you. People ask a question, where is the line? And when does a hit become go from two minutes to five minutes and when does a hit go from five or wherever, to a suspension. In this case, none of our antennas were raised, and none of your antennas to be fair, to ask the question, are you going to suspend Cory Stillman after that game after that period, next day.
We just felt that when we found out there was an injury inflicted upon Nilson, and was going to cost him the game, there was times when we consider the act and there's times when we consider the injury and more so in the Playoffs, because in the Playoffs it becomes a real factor when an injury can take that player away from the same team. You're playing game after game, unlike the season. That's why we don't do it during the season depending on the teams. We do consider the injury but not in the same parameters. If you look at the Cory Stillman hit, it was to the side. Nilson was travelling on the boards and he had the puck and Stillman made contact and brought the elbow up and left his feet. It's exactly similar to the Kubina hit by Gelinas where the elbow came up and if you put them side by side, the feet were exactly the same, they left the ice when they made contact. The elbow hit the head, Kubina, even though he's taller than Nilson, their heads are about the same distance above the boards on the glass. So they both had to leave the ice a little bit and they were what we sometimes call "hockey plays," where they were travelling along the boards. The player met him shoulder to shoulder but the elbow came up. In this case -- and did we know was an injury to Kubina caused by that? We weren't sure. He played the rest of the game. This happened on the first shift. We looked at that also as we looked at the Nilson one. Tampa asked us to look at it and we looked at it. We looked at it before they asked us. We look at everything. Whether it is one game in the Stanley Cup Finals or one game in the middle of December.
Then when you look at the Lecavalier hit, Lecavalier had his back to Nieminen. Lecavalier touched the puck briefly, Nieminen hit him straight from the back. The hit by Nieminen was a forearm directly to the back of the head, causing Lecavalier's head to hit the glass. That was the difference. One of those hits where our antennas were raised. Our reaction raced as soon as the hit was made, unlike the other ones, which were part of the play and didn't bring a response right away to us, that something was wrong. That's the difference. Sometimes it's small, sometimes it's large. But in this case there was no doubt that it deserved a five-minute penalty because of the impact of the hit and the velocity of the hit and from behind and caused injury. That also led to the one-game suspension.
Q. What about the bigger issue here: We have seen a number of blows to the head, not just during the Playoffs and the Stanley Cup Final but throughout the regular season. What can the League do to address that situation and eliminate this kind of thing so it doesn't happen again?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Well, Doug, you're never going to eliminate it. Scott Stevens hitting Paul Kariya last year was a good hit, if you want to eliminate it -- this discussion is an old discussion. Let's put governors on NASCAR cars or Indianapolis race cars. Let's make sure all heavyweight fighters wear head gear. It's a question, what do we want to do with the game and how much do we want to look at these things? I am not saying that we like injuries, but in a hard-hitting hockey game and when you watch these things on slow motion replays, you know, they look like they are bad hits but things happen fast and the prize right now is a pretty big prize and it's in sight for both teams. They are out there and they are hitting hard. It has been good hockey, but sometimes it crosses the line and it's easy for us to sit up here, all of us, and distinguish it the day after in slow motion. When the players are doing it on the ice it's tough. So I don't think it's a problem. When it is a problem we suspend them.
We had a record number of suspensions this year and probably we suspended players more so than we would have in the past for certain situations. And I think we're monitoring pretty good as a league and you know, if the Players Association thinks we should be more adamant at doing it, they are welcomed to step forward and we'll go at it. And our managers think it's at the right level and, you know, we get disagreements both ways.
We had hearings yesterday and Calgary is not happy with the suspension and the Players Association is part of every call, and you know, they do what they have to do on the call to try to keep the player from being suspended, but they represent both players. I think there's lots of parameters, checks, both ways to keep this thing in where it should be. If you feel personally that there's too many head hits, then that's your personal opinion and there's other people think that the hitting is just fine now, and injuries will be part of a hard-hitting game.
Q. How much of a factor was Nieminen's previous one-game suspension in these Playoffs, and can you compare his the incident with Curtis Joseph to this one, in terms of which one you think -- how did you analyze both ones?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Well, our supplemental discipline memo, how we take that into account if a player is a repeat offender. If we see the guy again, we'll say, gee, how many times do we have to see this guy or is he going to learn to stay within the parameters of the game, and not venture outside? It's always a factor, and when we say it's a factor, everyone involved defending the player disagrees or resents that, yet when I talk to the players, I have been scolded a number of times by the players at player meetings when they say, don't you get it? I mean this guy, you have seen him all the time. He does it all the time. Why don't you do something and increase it? So it's twofold. Depends which side of the fence you are on when you are defending it or you are -- you are the guy who is on the receiving end. It's a factor and it was a factor in considering Stillman also, you know. Stillman, I have never seen Stillman in the supplemental discipline office and he's not that type of player. So it's always a small factor. It wasn't the deciding factor, though, by any means.
Q. At this time of year are referees paid by the series or by the game?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Paid by the series or by the game. Every series they advance, Al, they are paid by the series, and regardless if they do one game or eight games, you know, we hand these schedules to th the officials, then we have changed lots of times, depending upon situations, and importance of games, and experience that's there and how guys are working. Dan Marouelli did three or four of the games in the Finals last year and he didn't make it to the Finals this year. Similar to players, some players are hot at certain times of year in certain seasons, so they are paid by the series. They get in the series, they make the same amount; then we monitor their work in each series.
Q. It seems to me when you had --
COLIN CAMPBELL: I knew there was part B to this question.
Q. You used two of three referees when you were only using one, and then I think you went to five last year in the two-referee system. Now you are down to four. I am wondering, is this a matter of money?
COLIN CAMPBELL: No, the money is the same. We argued when we were doing their agreement, Andy argued assigning these guys, he felt they worked better with less, to be involved with it. We were at five and we were at more for each series, and the officials wanted more officials in the series to get experience. The money wasn't the factor. The money was what it was and they were going to split it in smaller portions, but more people involved. Had nothing to do with the money. We argued during their negotiations years ago that we wanted less in each round. They wanted more just for the experience and being part of it. They are like players: They like to be in the Playoffs. So we have even talked about going from three to two. But we're at four now and that was strictly something we did and we told officials we were going to do it. It didn't change the moneys available at all. It's not -- they don't get paid by person, they get paid -- we have so much money apportioned out to each round for the officials.
Q. Could you just explain the process of which managers, coaches, executives you speak to in something like this over the last 24 to 36 hours, and also was there any thinking of maybe suspending him for longer than the one game?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Well, in my experience doing this job the last six years, you know, it's a process that at the end of it, no one is happy. Everyone is -- maybe that's -- you've hit it right on it, no one is happy. But the prize is pretty, as I said before, it's right there and both teams have a good chance to grab it and it's a big prize. So things are said, things are done to get that prize and we just have to operate within those parameters knowing what is at stake.
What I normally do is I call up when we decide that there's a situation like this, I called up Darryl Sutter after the game. I said, you know, we have to have a hearing tomorrow morning with Nieminen, and then I called up and it went a little longer than that. Then I called Jay Feaster and I told him I needed a medical, a doctor's medical on the player Lecavalier. The player who gets injured in this case is Lecavalier and from there we move on. Several conversations with the manager. In this case, it's a manager/coach and there's no other conversations with the other manager unless I am getting an update on the medical. He does not enter it. If he tries to get involved other than the medical condition of the player, I just shut him down. That's not his place to request supplemental discipline or pursue it. We make that clear at the beginning of the season. We make that clear at the beginning of the Playoffs. We don't take requests for supplemental discipline.
Q. Kerry Fraser mentioned that he's supposed to work Game 6. Given the visceral response to him in Calgary, have you thought about rejigging the schedule of the officials?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Well, he's right. He's supposed to work and that's the way we do it. We haven't done that in the past, but Andy made some long-term assignments just based on the fact that we're trying to put some names in for our charter and move these people around, but if we have to -- we have done this in the past, we change assignments after the first four games all the time, and in this case it's no different. If we feel there has to be some jigging, as you put it, we'll do it.
Having said that, you know, I don't think the game was poorly officiated. That's what -- I know you are not indicating that, but if that's what the indication is here just because one five-on-three call was made in the beginning of the game and it resulted in a goal, and that was the only goal in the game, I don't think that the officiating should be judged harshly in that fact nor that they decided that Conroy's penalty was not a penalty, if that's what they were saying it was penalty. It was perceived as something that was probably embellished in their minds, that's why it went down the way it did. Based on what I would think, that might be their two observations, at least the fans. I don't know about the team itself and Darryl, but I think the officials the other night made the correct calls and did a good game for the intensity of a Stanley Cup Final.
Q. What is the validity of reports that you met with Calgary team officials prior to this incident and warned them about this type of behavior?
COLIN CAMPBELL: The validity that I met with team officials, I have not worked in this series, Mike Murphy is the series supervisor. We meet -- Mike meets with both teams, once between every game and sometimes more often, and sits down with Darryl and sits down with Jay as managers and discusses their likes and dislikes of what is going on and things that they put forward, and we do that from the very beginning of the Playoffs with each manager, or coach, whoever they indicate. Sometimes the general manager, they speak to the coach and let him deal with the series supervisor. They may say, we don't like -- we think so and so, and so and so is cheating on faceoffs. They are getting -- they are cheating on the changes and we'd like you people to watch it. Sometimes they are right. We watch the tapes as diligently as the tapes are watched when we were coaches, and when Mike was a coach he gets a DVD after every game and goes over the game play-by-play. We already have dissected it during the game. We know when the responses are real and we know when they are competitive in trying to get an edge. And that happens, believe it or not. So when we have to direct the officials of what is going on, we tell them. If we feel that one team is getting out of hand or boisterous or we feel that there's too much shoving or pushing or on the way to benches, we think players are taking pot shots, we warn the incoming officials. I think they should be warned. The common belief, and a lot of you guys have been around for a long time, you are the ones that get worked and when coaches or managers work you guys during the media scrums, they are hoping that the referees are hearing those or reading those in the morning, and that's how they are going to officiate the game. And God knows if you had to officiate the game on Strachan's report, you'd be in tough on that. (LAUGHTER).
Q. Not to suggest that this was any fault of Vince Lecavalier, if a helmet pops off in a situation like this, how much of a factor was it in the hit and your decision, and how much of it is communicated to the players regarding fastening chin straps?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Just like all these things, we look at every possible factor in these hits. If that hit was directed at the back and the head lunged forward and the helmet popped off, it probably would have been different if that had happened; if the glass does not move like it moves in Calgary now or moves in Tampa, when you noticed -- if you look at the glass in this hit, you will see all the panes moving on this glass here. There was give. That's how hard he hit it. If the glass was like it was six, eight years ago, then that would have been a consideration, too. The helmet did -- the hit was direct on the head and the helmet -- you'd like them all to be strapped as tight as they can. But this helmet, I don't know how tightly it was strapped on but the below was directly to the helmet. So you know, I don't know if that was an indication or not that it was unloose, but it did pop off. So we look at all those things and with the blow right to the head, you know, you see in fights when those helmets go right off when you strike a helmet. If there was no contact by Nieminen on his helmet, then it would have been much more of a factor.
Q. Since past practices shown us that intent and the players' reputation often come into factor in your decision, how is it that one game for the hit on Curtis Joseph, then again one game for this hit?
COLIN CAMPBELL: Well, you know, I think, Jim, you look at everything and you look at the degree of importance of games. You look at where you are at in the season, and it is the Finals, and we look at everything. In this case we feel taking this player out for one game, he served five minutes, we think getting the five minutes -- there's been plays. We suspended a player two years ago in the Finals who because of the referee's position, did not see the crosscheck by Fisher in the Detroit/Carolina series; didn't receive a five-minute penalty and we have suspended him for the next game. In this case, I think the penalty, that the player received the five-minute major was huge in this 1-nothing game. And I think that the club was penalized by that alone and taking him out of another game, I think is huge and I don't think a second game requires it. At this point in time, I hope Lecavalier plays. I hope he doesn't miss a game, but this suspension is one game and that's what it is, despite if he plays or doesn't play.
Q. I wanted to clarify something: Did you say that Kerry Fraser was scheduled to work Game 6 and now is not going to work Game 6?
COLIN CAMPBELL: No, I never said he's not going to work Game 6. I said we're taking -- after Game 4, we take it all on a game-by-game basis, but there's temporary schedules we put in as far as moving people around, but we haven't made that decision yet.
Q. Long-time listener, first-time caller, Colie.
COLIN CAMPBELL: You don't listen.
Q. Why would I listen to you? You read Al Strachan.
Do you weigh a game in the Final, when it comes to your decision of a one-game suspension, do you give more weight to a game in the Final than compared to, say, another playoff game or a regular season game? In other words, what do you see as the equivalent in regular season or other playoff games to this.
COLIN CAMPBELL: Well, I mean, obviously Playoffs and suspensions and Playoffs are much more important and we put much more weight on them then regular season games. Particularly because usually it's an act of physicality on a player and then that team is rewarded that exerts that act on another team. They are playing him again the next night, so there should be no reward there. Your player's out with an injury perhaps or is playing hurt and the other player is still playing, so that's certainly a factor that you don't get during the season. I mean they move on and they are playing another team and sometimes another team gets rewarded. You might be battling that team, the player who gets hurt.
Anyways, when you get into the Playoffs -- I am not so sure we look at the Finals -- I mean, it's important now and there's lots of coverage for each game. You are not close to the Cup, I guess that has some sort of bearing but we look at each series as this could cause one team, that could be their Final as far as Final series, if he is a key player and it hurts them, you know, hurts them as far as moving ahead. We took Shane Corson out of the 7th game against the Islanders a couple years ago for kicking. That was, you know, 7th game big game we would have had to make a hard decision as it turns out now when you can see it the Hatcher hit in the 6th game Detroit/Calgary, I mean he would have missed the 7th game. That would have been a huge -- if there was a 7th game. So I don't think it's as much the series as the games in the series. Sometimes you move on in the series it becomes more and more meaningful and they don't have time to make up for losing that player and this is in the middle of the series and Game 5 is going to be huge. I understand it's a tough blow for Calgary, but it is what it is.
Q. There's been a little bit of increase in fighting not only in the Finals, but in the whole tournament. Why do you think this is happening and is it any concern to you and to the League?
COLIN CAMPBELL: No, I think the players -- it's a concern to me when it happens when it's not very meaningful, and I mean when the scores are at a certain point, it's out of reach, one way or the other, it's 1-nothing or 2-0 and the team scores in the open net and then when you get those fights, that's useless to me. That's a concern. I think we have to do something to rid ourselves of that. That's no good for anybody, no good for the game. But fights like Lecavalier/Iginla, the ones that happened when the game is still a game and both teams are in it and it happens because, you know, it's supposed to happen and the reason it was allowed in the first place as an outlet valve other than doing other things. When you are mad and -- so when those happen during the course of a game, I mean, you can live with those. And all I heard were good things about Lecavalier/Iginla tussle, but I am sure both coaches were a little nervous. Wouldn't want to lose a player of that dimension. That would hurt them in a huge way. I guess, Joe, the short answer is when the time when it happens is bothersome and those fights happen with less than five minutes or so left in the game, they are meaningless; that's when I don't think they are very good for our game.
Q. Going back to the answer you gave to Jim Kelly's question when you were talking about how you looked at the suspension going forward, the fact that he paid a major -- that he had a major penalty and it cost his team and the fact this is a Game 5 are you suggesting that when you weighed that versus the second game because of that you didn't feel there was a need for a second game? Can you just go over that for us?
COLIN CAMPBELL: No, I mean, we have got --we don't have a big chart on the wall by any means saying this is where we go when this happens. There's so many different variations to his and situations and plays and I have got a pretty good staff in place that have been in the game a very long time and in various situations and positions and to me, this doesn't feel or smell like more than a one-game suspension. I mean we didn't like it, and you know, to some people they wonder why we're even going to one game. So we didn't consider two games and -- because I didn't think that it needed to go there. We don't have specifics in a manual for that. We have lots of past situations and circumstances for things like that, that we draw upon, but there is no certain manual and we discussed it at length with all the people that work for us and so never once -- I shouldn't say never once, I mean, we looked at should it be more than one, and that was about as much input as that got and we stayed at one.

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