AL DIVISION SERIES: INDIANS v MARINERS

October 10, 2001

John Hart

JOHN HART: Well, I think that it's a similar type club to some of our more recent years. At the same time, they're all a little bit different. But we're sort of known as an offensive team. I think we finished in the top couple in most offensive categories this year. We have a versatile line-up. We've got a strong bullpen and we have solid three starters. We've struggled this year with a number of injuries, Charlie Nagy, Jaret Wright, Dave Burba has not had one of his regular years. So we've struggled a lot in the 4 and 5 spots. And it sounds a little bit like a broken record, because we've had some great offensive teams here, we've won a lot of games over the years. It always seems to be an Achilles heel with this ballclub, over the long haul, has been that deep starting pitching. So I'd say there's a lot more similarities with this club. We haven't changed the way -- what's worked for us here.

JOHN HART: Well, you're right. Anytime you go out into the free agent market, you're really looking for a couple of things. One, you're looking for someone that's going to pitch you into the postseason, is going to help you get there. And then obviously you're looking, depending on what you spend and who the pitcher is, you're looking for somebody that's going to be able to win some games for you in the postseason. A lot of people, when we signed Chuck, said that Chuck could beat the Yankees. But there's 162 games you've got to play to get there. He did a great job for us last year, and unfortunately that was the first year in five we didn't get in. But he did a great job, won 16 games, 200 plus innings. And this year he got hurt and missed half the season. We had to get there without him until September. He pitched very well for us in September and obviously tomorrow will be a good test for him. But for me personally, I don't necessarily go out and get any player and just say, this is a guy that's going -- I'm getting him for postseason. We're getting guys to help us get there. It's hard enough to get there.

JOHN HART: You mean as far as what's happening with the country? No, I don't find it easy at all. I'm very aware, like I'm sure everyone is. I found myself, from September 11th, as involved as I am, I mean, I'm a very passionate guy about the club, and I care very much about it, and I worry about the team. But I found myself alternating between tears and anger as you go through this. I still do. You look at the stories of the tragic loss of life and families that are disrupted. It's a very heartbreaking thing to see what we're going through, and what people are going through. And that certainly bothers me. I worry for the people that are out there flying missions and doing those type of things. And at the same time you follow, like all of us, we have our opinions on what's going on, what's going to happen. So it's not too far away.

JOHN HART: I think people have spoken well of our club. I think as I mentioned earlier, because of our inconsistency with our fourth and fifth starter, we probably didn't win as many games as we could have. I think our club very easily could have been a 100 win club, but it wasn't. But I think people around baseball know we have a good ballclub and that we deserve to be here. At the same time, the three clubs you mentioned, they're all special. I think starting with Seattle, Pat Gillick and his staff and Lou, those guys have done a good job in putting a team together. This is really a baseball team. They have deep starting pitching and an outstanding bullpen. A team that really plays the game well. And they've been a fun club to watch. I've watched them all year long. And I've been excited about them. And Oakland, after that bad start, I think everybody in our League knew how special they were. And the development of Mulder and Zito have just given them a killer pitching star, Cory Lidle has come out of nowhere. And the Yankees have won it forever, it seems like. We've been in this position -- we've been really in all these positions. We've had two years, I think, in '95 we won a hundred games in a strike shortened season, which probably translated to 112, 114 wins if we had played a full season. And I know how special those years are. And we've had other years where we've come in, 86, 88 wins, and have maybe been overlooked. That happened to us in '97 and we went to game 7 of the World Series with a lead in the 9th inning. So it's -- for me it's more about getting here, and how you perform when you get here.

JOHN HART: Well, I think we've really -- first of all, let me say this: I think people have looked at it and have felt that the Indians aren't -- feel that you can win without pitching. And that's not true. I mean I love great pitching. The difficulty has been, one, in acquiring a dominant, No. 1 starter. I think some of that is economics. If you all have watched the way Cleveland has evolved over the years, we went from a team in the late '80s and early 90's that they were talking about moving the franchise. And we have kind of grown our team, and we have spot played in the free agent market. We don't have a player that is making more than 8 million dollars. We're paying cash out more than 8 million dollars. And I think as we looked at how we allocate our dollars, the free agent pitching sort of got away from us. We've always had a deep, every day club. We're paying our club well. And it's been difficult to go out and throw that kind of money, with our budget, at some of these starters that are commanding 12, 14, 15 million dollars. Not that we haven't wanted that guy. We have really concentrated internally on developing young pitching, the Bartolo Colons, Jaret Wright, C.C. Sabathia, Charlie Nagy before he got hurt. We've had some successes with it and we've struggled with it. But I think we're a club that has averaged better than 90 plus wins over the last six or seven years. And we've done it with steady starting pitching, a quality bullpen, and a big offense. And when you get to postseason you certainly are going to live and die with your starters. Obviously, the job our kid did for us out there yesterday was special. That's a homegrown developed young pitcher. Jaret Wright is home in California, with a shoulder injury. And C.C. Sabathia going on Saturday. And so I think for us we've tried to get young power arms and develop them. And I think we have some. Bullpens are sometimes easier to put together. We've been able to mix and match. Again, the economics of the bullpen, we've taken starting pitchers like Jose Mesa and turned them into closers, affordably. We took Mike Jackson, who people didn't feel could close, and put him in as a closer, affordably. And we traded for Bob Wickman last year, a very affordable closer. We traded for a contract. So we've maneuvered well within the constraints and the economics that we have.

JOHN HART: You know, I don't know. I think that's something that certainly Charlie is aware of when he's watched Chuck over the years. But again this year is almost -- it's almost unfair to evaluate Chuck this year. He has notoriously been somewhat of a slow starter. He did that for us last year. And you watched him in August and September, he was in the 7th inning all the time. I don't know what he threw, 210 last year. He's averaged 200 innings almost every year. Chuck is a big, tall, strong guy that I'm sure that mechanics at times will get out of whack, he'll leave balls up. And like any starter, especially when you're in the postseason, you're going to pay attention to him. You're going to pay attention in a hurry as you go along. I'm sure Charlie will be aware of it. I wish I could give you the reason why, it's hard to put your finger on.

JOHN HART: Well, Bobby has had a fabulous year. I think he was another one of those guys that sort of came up as a setup guy. He was drafted by the White Sox as a bullpen guy and he maneuvered around to the Yankees and eventually Milwaukee as a quality setup guy, tough guy, he can pitch a lot. He got a chance to close in Milwaukee, which was a second division club. We really liked him. We trusted a lot of things about him. And last year we had a closer that was 19 out of 22 in Steve Karsay and made a trade for Bob Wickman to add to our bullpen. And we took Steve and made him a setup guy and put Wickman into the back end. I think this year we had Karsay, Shuey and Wickman, and when we traded for Johnny Rocker it was with the idea that we could take a player that we had three years left with. Bob has not signed beyond this year and with John, he was leading the National League in Rolaids points. He had great postseason numbers, and we thought it would be a good trade for our short-term and our long-term. And I think any time you make a deal during the season with a club that has one area that is pretty settled it can be a little unsettling for the people that are down there, especially in that bullpen. And we realized that when we made the deal. But we felt that having the ability to have Shuey under contract and Rocker for three years, that would be able to help us this year and also help us in the future. We made that trade. Bobby took it very professionally. If we made a mistake, which I think we did, it was just turning the ball over to John immediately, rather than allowing the two to sort of mesh together and see what went on. And I think as John struggled we gave the ball back to Bobby, and he hasn't missed a beat. He's a professional, a true professional. And I don't think he was overjoyed at losing a job that he really didn't lose. But he set up nicely for us. And when we gave him the ball back as the closer, he did a great job for us. And I think that shows how special this guy is. And he certainly hasn't hurt his value this year.

JOHN HART: Well, I don't feel real comfortable talking about being attracted to Charlie (laughter.) That's tough to say. In all seriousness, I've known Charlie for a number of years, knew him when he was with other organizations. I saw him as a player and I knew him as a manager in the Minor Leagues. When we came to Cleveland, we hired Charlie over here, and he's been in our organization ever since. He was a hitting coach, a Triple-A manager, and he won a couple of pennants and playoffs down there. He has the respect of the players. He's a tireless, old school, caring, baseball man. And he's got great passion for the game of baseball. He's got great passion for his players and for the job. And that was what appealed to me with Charlie. He's had, as everyone knows, it's documented, he's had a string of somewhat bad luck healthwise. It has been concerning, being a friend of Charlie's, to see a friend go through that. And it's also been concerning as the leader of the organization to see a man, in such a pivotal position, struggle as he did last year and to a point this year. When he came back after this infection, the gallbladder infection, Charlie did stay longer, he did give himself more of a chance to heal. I think the schedule brought him back to get him ready for postseason. But he was given medical clearance, he's fine. I have seen a change from -- I flew with him into Toronto on Friday and Charlie was fine. But he's gotten better every day. He's got good energy. He is not where he was three months ago or four months ago, where he was throwing batting practice and healthy and doing all those things. But he certainly is much better than he was three weeks ago. I don't think he ever got healthy after his first surgery, to be candid with you. I think he carried it around and poured through it and eventually got it taken care of. And I think he's doing pretty good right now.

JOHN HART: I told Mark he's going to be inheriting a No. 1 and No. 2 starter, which is something I never had here. So he's got a pretty good start. But I think that the obvious immediate question is going to be the Major League personnel. This was another 90 plus win season. We have, a lot of our players are under contract. If you look at the infield, the catching and all the infield is returning next year. A very productive group. He's got some issues that he needs to address with some personnel in the outfield as to what he does. We made a trade for Milton Bradley. He's got a decision to make with Kenny and Juan, and we have some pitchers, starting pitchers, Dave Burba with an option. But this is not a -- this is a club that's built to go another year. And I think that's something that Mark and ownership will sit down and determine what it is they want to do, as the season winds down. I think the focus -- obviously Mark is focusing on it now. But those will be -- that will be the main thrust of what he does this winter. There are going to be a lot of clubs that are going to have more volatility than the Cleveland Indians. We're not a club that has got 7 or 8 or 10 free agents, core, key guys. We have a couple of key guys that are free agents. He has his front office pretty much in place. There's going to be continuity and stability within the front office. And so I think the main thrust is going to be some key personnel decisions as a Major League club.

JOHN HART: I think for any team that gets into the postseason that doesn't win it they're going to feel a little bit incomplete. Obviously, when you have a completely, way out there year, like Seattle has had, which has just been incredible. What was it? The Cubs and -- what is that? The dark ball or softball era, whatever it was, but this has just been unbelievable. But I think for all teams that get to the postseason there's going to be a sense of disappointment if you don't win it all. That's what we all play for. We want to be the best of the best. I know Seattle does. I think as they've looked at it, they certainly have had a lot of fun this year, they've had a terrific year. But they're professionals, they realize the postseason is a completely different game. You're never going to be able to take away what they did during the regular season. And -- but this month of October in Major League Baseball, it's just a completely different season. You can throw a lot of things out the window, as you should. You're playing best of five, best of seven, best of seven.

JOHN HART: I don't know what I'll be doing ten minutes from now. Quite candidly, I really haven't focused on that. I've paid attention to this club and I haven't really looked beyond where we're going. And I don't know that I necessarily want to at this point. I mean, I've put all my energy and we've worked hard to put this club together. I think you know the difficult decisions we faced this winter, and some of the difficulties we've been through this year. We still have -- there's still pitches to be thrown. So I'm not going to concentrate too much on that. I do know that at some point I'm going to take a one-way ticket, rather than a round-trip going south. And we'll see what happens. I don't know if I'm the kind of guy that really wants to know exactly what I'm going to be doing in two months. For the first time I'm going to look up. It's been 24 hours a day, 7 days a week Cleveland Indians since the day I signed on here. And that's great. There's a next stage somewhere.

JOHN HART: I think it's a huge piece. And I think at times it's been a little bit overlooked. If you go back to our postseason runs over the years, it's been built around a strong bullpen, a deep bullpen, a quality -- couple of quality lefties, a couple of power setup guys, and a closer. And I think if you don't have a dominant rotation, but you've got a deep bullpen, you can win a lot of games. And you can turn the club around by putting a bullpen together. You can shorten the game where you don't have to -- listen, it's hard to, if you're developing a young kid or two or you've got an injury or you've got a fifth starter, fourth, fifth starter that you're not fortunate enough to have the Atlanta rotation, the game sometimes gets away from you, when you try to extend that starter beyond where he's supposed to go, when you try to get him to the 7th inning rather than get him into the 6th inning. And I think a strong bullpen allows you to win more games. It's maybe not always the prettiest, it might take longer, it might be those three hour games, because you're maneuvering around in that bullpen. But it gives you a chance to win and compete, maybe without the quicker -- if you don't have the big horse starters.