NCAA MEN'S FINAL FOUR

April 2, 2004

Joey Graham

John Lucas

Sean Sutton

JOHN LUCAS: Yeah, absolutely. You know, you always hear about East Coast basketball, West Coast basketball. We're from the south. We have a lot of hoopers in Houston, in the state of Texas. It just shows the opportunity to see of what kind of talent we do have down there with Emeka Okafor, Daniel Ewing, myself, Ivan McFarlin. You know, we playing in our home state. I think it's a good opportunity for us.

JOHN LUCAS: Yeah, I was benched the last five games of my season at Baylor. I don't know why. Don't know what for. But, you know, just one of them things Coach decided to do. I think I averaged eight minutes my last four games at Baylor. I was leaving anyway (laughter).

JOEY GRAHAM: Well, I think Coach Sutton has built his program around transfer students. I think it started with his son transferring from Kentucky to Oklahoma State. He recruits hard-working individuals. I think that's what he's brought to the table with these transfers that he had, me, my brother, Daniel, John. We all just come in, we're hungry, want to play, want to compete. I think that's what kind athletes Coach Sutton brings to the table.

JOHN LUCAS: You know, Coach, he's a legend. He knows how to put stuff together. He know how to put the puzzle together. He done such a terrific job with us by bringing all the transfers in, making us bond as one, and quickly. Usually I think it take teams like one or two years to actually get their transfers to know the system and know what kind of plays, just to know what the coach want from you. It took us a matter of a couple of weeks and we bonded. And I think that's why, you know, we at where we at.

JOEY GRAHAM: They're a pretty similar team to us. They like to get up and down the floor. But I think it's going to come down to a game of controlling the rebounds, controlling the tempo of the game. I think if we do that, we have a good chance on winning it.

JOHN LUCAS: Same thing what Joey was saying. I think we need to limit their shot selections, like if they miss the shot, make sure we get the rebound so we don't give them a second or third opportunity to score. It's going to come down to who can stop who, who can control the tempo of the game.

JOHN LUCAS: It plays out a lot. We know he always have to answer to everything. Whatever teams throw at us, we always have something to go right back at him. That just shows you how long he's been in the game, how much he knows about the game. Think that's why we're fortunate to have him as our coach.

JOEY GRAHAM: I don't know, I'm pretty sure y'all have seen that little scour that Coach Sutton does when he sticks out his bottom lip (laughter). It kind of lets us know he expects the best out of us and he wants us to play hard for him. When he does that, we try to step it up another notch for him and play as hard as we can for him.

JOHN LUCAS: I already talked to Emeka Okafor and Daniel Ewing both, saying play your heart out. We're not playing for us, we're playing for the upcoming players in Houston. You know, just to show everybody we have talent in the City of Houston. You know, it's going to be big. I know I want to bring a championship home. That's just not to celebrate for myself, but to celebrate for my friends and family back in Houston that supported me, where I'm at today, I wouldn't have been there without them.

JOHN LUCAS: Man, it's crazy (smiling). We haven't had our cell phones for like three days now. He took them before we even came here. You know, it's kind of funny because we joke about how we in jail. You get an hour to talk on the phone, then you get an hour of visiting time. Your parents and your family, they can't come to your room, you have to go to a ballroom and meet with your family. We just joke around, tell them that's our hour of daytime, just being in the yard (laughter).

JOHN LUCAS: You know, I seen bits and pieces of his tape. Yeah, I think we do have similar games. I think I'm a better shooter than he is, though. On the court, we play with a lot of energy. He rubbed off on me with how much emotion is involved in the game, how much enthusiasm you have to have. Also I think he rubbed off for the love for the game, too. You just don't play because you want to be a star; you play because you love the game.

JOEY GRAHAM: I heard a comment, something about Coach Sutton is like fine wine, he just gets better with age. I think that's true in this case. Coach Sutton, he's a tremendous coach, and I think he just gets better with time. I don't think he's ready to give anything up right now.

JOHN LUCAS: Well, we really didn't say anything. You know, I think just our emotions expressed how we was feeling, you know. It was so loud in there, you really couldn't say anything. You know, the first person I had to find. I was really looking for my whole family. They all was down there, but people just captured me hugging onto my dad. My mom, little brother, sister was right there. It was a family thing. They helped me this summer just by lifting me up from the whole Baylor tragedy. I'm just paying my respects to them for helping me and keeping me positive.

JOHN LUCAS: You know, when they switched off, we ran just a pick-and-roll. My man switched off on Joe. What was it, Bailey?

JOEY GRAHAM: Barley.

JOHN LUCAS: I was like, that's a mismatch. If you see on the tape, I'm up here waving Joe down to go post-up, but he popped out. So I threw him the ball. Funny thing is, he fumbled it. I was like, no. Then he picked it up and my man dove. That's when I knew the game was over because, you know, he just left me open. I wasn't going to miss that shot because I had to make up for the first half.

JOEY GRAHAM: I knew about the crash, you know, when it went on. I think it was a tragedy. But I think that the team has regrouped from that. We still have a couple players on our team that were here when this situation went on. But I think the most important thing, when this thing happened, Coach Sutton, his whole demeanor, output changed. I've heard from the other players that used to play back in '95, '94, they said that he's changed completely. He's made a 360-degree turn. They say he was a hard coach. He was harder on them then than he is now. I think it made him into a better coach now because of this accident that happened.

JOHN LUCAS: I remember it because Ivan was a freshman that year, from Houston, growing up playing ball. I caught his AAU coach. I was like, "Was Ivan on that plane?" I didn't know he was a redshirt and redshirts couldn't fly then. When I found out he wasn't, I got kind of relieved, but I also felt sorry for the 10 that did pass away. With me dealing with the tragedy, Coach and them dealing with the tragedy, when I went to visit, he said if I needed anybody to lean on, he had his shoulder, because he'd been through something that I'd been through. That's what made me decide to come, you know, he was going to help me no matter what.

JOEY GRAHAM: We don't look beside any team. We give every team respect. If we come out and do the thing that's brought us to this point, I think it's going to be an interesting game for everyone to see.

JOHN LUCAS: You know, it's funny because all of our coaches, they're all different. Coach Sutton, he's the boss, he's the Godfather. Everybody look up to him. Coach Sean Sutton, he mostly call the offensive plays. Coach Sutton calls offensive plays. But our defense is really Coach Sutton and Coach Dickey and Coach Cyprien there to hype us up, give us offensive and defensive plays. I think Coach Sean and Coach Sutton, I don't know that they divided, but I know they always call the right play for us to get the bucket. As long as they keep doing that, I don't care who calls the plays.

COACH SUTTON: First of all, we don't put those guys in jail. They painted a very bleak picture. It's not that bad (smiling). They probably thought putting them in jail was two hours of study hall last night in the hotel with the academic people. But we know from the past in '95 how much hoopla there is. You can get caught up in that. We have set aside times when they can see their parents, see their friends, see their girlfriends, that sort of thing. But then other than that, well, they're doing something getting ready for the basketball game, looking at film, things like that. It's always a thrill to get back to the Final Four. I've had so many great friends, great coaches through the years. I think of Jack Hartman, Norm Stewart, guys that are in the Big-12 country, even my assistant for a long time, Gene Keady, they never had a chance to get a team here. It's such a thrill to get here. To win it would be something special. But this group of young men probably have surpassed what I thought they were capable of doing when we started practice in October. Any coach, what he really wants at the end of the year is to see if his team has maximized their God-given talent. And this ballclub has gone far beyond that. So from a coaching standpoint, it's been a special year to have coached this group of young men. The game tomorrow I think the two teams are very evenly matched. The philosophy in both programs is pretty much the same. It should be a terrific, terrific ballgame.

COACH SUTTON: No, there's no doubt that when the state association eased up on some of the rules that they had for years, you know, forever it seemed to me like when I was at Arkansas, the football that was king by leaps and bounds. I think basketball coaches, all they ever wanted was just to be a close second to football. I think that's happened. I think the pro teams have certainly helped the growth of basketball in Texas. But I think the high school coaches, for a long time, basketball coaches were football coaches, assistant football coaches. Well, those guys knew just enough to be dangerous. So now you've got basketball coaches coaching high school basketball, and there's no doubt Texas is a very fertile area for recruiting - not only for the Big-12 and other conferences that are nearby, but people come in from all over the country.

COACH SUTTON: Well, it's hard for me to even comprehend what those people at Purdue are thinking. I mean, here is a man that has given so much to that school. For them not to increase his contract, I mean, that's ridiculous. I guess that's what frustrates me sometimes with athletic directors and presidents, that they don't understand there is a word called "loyalty." For what he has given to that institution, there certainly should be no doubt, if he wanted to coach two or three more years, he should coach. The tragedy certainly did affect my life. It continues to be there. I've been asked this question. I don't believe there's such a thing as closure. I think if it is, it's when you die. But that crash was such a tragedy to all of us, and we still have two players, McFarlin and Crawford, that are with us. They have from time to time brought it up, say, "Boy, those guys, we beat Texas for the Big-12 championship. Man, those guys have got to be smiling down." It's been mentioned a couple other times since we continued to win. Day never passes that I don't think about it. We have a beautiful memorial there in the arena. When I walk to the academic center, which is located in the arena, I stop and see those guys. They were beautiful people. I change from the standpoint that I appreciate life so much more now. I tell our players, "You must understand the most important people in your life are your family. You need to call your mom and your dad a couple times a week and tell them you love them." I call my three sons every day. One lives in Fayetteville, one in Tulsa, and of course I have Sean, and tell them how much I care for them. You don't know, you could be gone tomorrow. I want to leave earth knowing that my family realizes the great love I have for my wife and my children. I've become a big hugger. If you watch this team, man, we hug a lot. You'll see me hug during the game, "Tony, give me a hug, I need one." I think they all realize how much our coaches care for them. I think they feel the same way about us. I think that's the great thing about coaching. It isn't the wins; it's the relationships and knowing that in some small way you may help a young man with your program to mature and be prepared to go out into the real world.

COACH SUTTON: He's very mature, but he's very tough. I think anybody that goes through some of the things that he's had to go through, you become tougher. I know some of my experiences have made me a tougher person. I don't know if all of you are familiar with John's father, when he was having problems, and how little John helped him. For a child that young, the fact that I'm a recovering alcoholic, I know the damage that I did to my family. There's no one that is close to someone who is an addict in some way that it doesn't affect them. So I have such utmost respect for John because, having gone through that, then having gone through what he had to endure down at Baylor. So he's very mature, very tough, and he is just a fierce competitor. As a player, no one works harder. You know, we'll finish practice, since we got in the NCAA tournament, and he's back over there on the court shooting about 500 shots every night. There's not very many young men that after a grueling practice in the afternoon, fulfilling your academic responsibility, that will come back over there. Too many guys would rather go hold hands with Jane or Susie Q.

COACH SUTTON: He's an outstanding basketball player. He's probably made more progress from the beginning of the season to where we are now than any of the other players. Not that all of them haven't grown some as a basketball player. It's hard to say. You know, for instance, in the game with Memphis, I think he gets 20 points in the first half and only gets one. Sometimes that hurts you. Sometimes he starts out slow. You know, there's some guys you have to stroke to get them going, sometimes you have to shake them up, give them a "do-better" talk. I guess you must have heard my do-better talk.

COACH SUTTON: Well, I think this team probably is one that I am the proudest of. To win here would be such a great thing for so many people, for our school. You know, I'd probably be like Al McGwire, if we happen to run it Monday night, I'll probably run to the dressing room and shed a few tears before I come back on the court. I can never forget when Al did that. I've been blessed through the years. I had the opportunity to meet all those great older coaches, I call them. When I was in high school, Tex winter, who is one of the great coaches, Ralph Miller was at Wichita, Phog Allen, Mr. Iba, they all recruited me. Mr. Iba allowed me even as a high school coach to go to the NABC hospitality suite. I remember Adolph Rupp and Mr. Iba down on their hands and knees about 3:00 in the morning. Mr. Iba had the Coca-Cola bottles, six-ounce bottles, Mr. Rupp had the Seven-Up bottles. Both of them I think had had a little Jack Daniels or something. They were down there arguing about running plays with these bottles. I'll never forget Mr. Rupp said, "Henry, that won't work." Mr. Iba, that deep voice, "The hell it won't, Adolph." Those are memories I have. Then to have the opportunity to coach as long as I have, all the great coaches we have today. So I've had a lifetime full of wonderful memories. There's been some turnovers along the way. But I think every time that has happened, I probably have become a better person.

COACH SUTTON: Well, I really haven't studied the proposals that closely. I think what's happened, I don't know why the NCAA all of a sudden is really honing in on men's basketball. I think one thing people don't realize, coaches very seldom run a player off, very seldom. Most players transfer because they're not playing, and they want to drop down to another level. Occasionally you might run a player off because he violates a team rule. But the problem in those stats, a lot of people don't understand, we take a lot of transfers. There have been a couple of kids that have left us. They all graduate. We've had all our transfers that have come in for the most part graduate, and yet nobody gets credit. You don't get credit for graduating them. Illinois didn't get credit for graduating Robisch. We lost the young Robisch, he goes to another school, he graduates, we get penalized for that. So the statistics don't tell the whole story. I don't think there's very many coaches that don't want all of their athletes to graduate, at least the older coaches. I think most older coaches have been in it long enough, they want their student athletes to graduate. You try to give them all the tools academically with tutors that will allow them to do that. Some of them won't. The thing that a lot of people don't understand, I've had players at Arkansas in particular that when they got there, all of a sudden we realize that maybe they couldn't graduate. But, you know what, they were better people for having been in our program for three or four years. They learned some social graces. They learned things that certainly allowed them to go out and be more successful than they would have been if they never had that opportunity of a college experience. I hate to see them penalize people, take away scholarships. We only have 13 scholarships. We don't have 15. I've never quite understood that. This event pays for about 90% of the NCAA bills, and yet we only have 13. What is a minimum number? I don't know. I think when you have 13 players, I think probably our percentage is a lot higher than this, but I would think in the 60s. I think at our school, there's only about 51%, and I think that's probably a pretty good figure just for the general student body. Maybe not. I don't know what it is. But, you know, that's a thing that's crazy, in my opinion, that they would take away scholarships just because they don't graduate. But, I mean, they're running the show.

COACH SUTTON: No, I had made up my mind I wanted to be a coach. I could have gone to any of the four schools, it would all been great. But Mr. Iba was a special man. Just the fact that all his former players call him Mr. Iba, I think that was out of respect. He was a great role model. Very tough. Very tough. They called him the Iron Duke. I'll tell you one story. Thank goodness, I'm not sure Mr. Iba could have coached today because of the 20-hour limit. I think that would have killed him. Holidays, we practiced three times. We'd go 9 in the morning till noon, 2 to 5, then come back at night and practice till he got tired. New Year's Eve, I was dating Patsy at the time. That morning we had a good practice. Just before he dismissed us, he said, "Boys, if you come back this afternoon and have a great practice, I'm going to let you off tonight. It's New Year's Eve. But I want you to behave yourselves. You must be in by midnight." Boy, that afternoon, I have never seen a team play with such intensity. Guys were taking charges, diving the bleachers after loose balls. Comes 5:00, and all of a sudden the team walks into the arena. You could tell, it was a basketball team. I see them discussing over there. Mr. Iba comes over and said, "One of us, one of my boys, has brought his team in here from East Texas State. They're going to Omaha to play in a tournament. They need a little scrimmage." We looked at each other. He said, "You boys be back at 7:30. I walked out of the arena at 10 after 12. I saw the New Year's in. He was tough but fair. He certainly taught us a lot of valuable lessons that have allowed most of his boys to go on and do well in the real world.