MLB WINTER MEETINGS

December 5, 2022

Craig Counsell

Milwaukee Brewers

Press Conference

Q. We haven't had a chance to speak with you since David made the change. From your point of view, how does that impact your job as the field manager to have that change in leadership considering it's someone you know so well in Matt?

CRAIG COUNSELL: I think we certainly lost Dave, somebody who I think is very good at his job and a friend, and that means that -- so there's change. David was the leader. So there's definitely change to our baseball operations.

As far as like who's got the best chance to hit the ground running for me personally, I think for the organization, I don't think there's any question that Matt is that guy.

The processes by which we do things don't really change, and I think that allows us to kind of keep moving.

Q. How is Matt in terms of like decision-making? He's had a lot of responsibility under David, but now it's like -- it ultimately stops with the owner, but in terms of the front office, it ultimately stops with him. What have you sort of witnessed in terms of his decision-making?

CRAIG COUNSELL: I think Dave would tell you that Matt has been kind of instrumental in building out a lot of like processes and how the organization makes decisions. So it's kind of his sweet spot really.

So that part doesn't change, but it's still, like anybody tells you, when you sit in the chair, it's different. You never know what you don't know if you're not doing the job. So that's the part Matt gets the opportunity to learn about, and you get faced -- you know, there are harder decisions in his job now. That's how it works.

Q. He was telling us about your walks. Are those any different now that he's the boss?

CRAIG COUNSELL: No, no. No, they're the same. He lives a little farther away, so I have to walk farther to go to his house, but other than that, they're the same.

Q. In terms of getting ready, is it too early to think, or have you guys already started thinking and talking about how you'll address the rule changes in Spring Training? Like for pitchers, for some of your pitchers, that's a pretty significant adjustment they're going to have to make.

CRAIG COUNSELL: Look, I think we haven't completely focused on it. We have a lot of -- the best way to practice it is in the games, so the Spring Training games are going to be for everybody the biggest opportunity for that.

The other thing I would say is I would like -- I think we're focused a little too much on pitchers with this subject. I think the hitters is just as -- is maybe more, maybe more put to the test than the pitchers.

Q. You're not just saying that because you were a hitter?

CRAIG COUNSELL: I'm not, no. I think the hitters are going to have challenges with it as well.

Q. Like in terms of just the pace?

CRAIG COUNSELL: The pace, yes.

Q. Thinking through things?

CRAIG COUNSELL: Yes.

Q. Do you think it's a significant change, or do you think it's going to be something that guys pick up quickly?

CRAIG COUNSELL: I think they'll adjust to it, and I think it's a good change. So it means that it's on all of us to like help change the behavior and help improve it, and I think we all think -- everybody thinks we can do it. And I think it will be make the game better.

I think we really owe it to the game to continue to try to do it.

Q. Other managers have sort of said that the running game will be the biggest change from their sort of seat. Do you think about whether you'll change up how you call (indiscernible) but also how you want your pitchers managing their limited number of throws over?

CRAIG COUNSELL: I think you're probably right. It will reward players that obviously can steal bases, and it will put all pitchers in a little bit of a strategy disadvantage with these guys.

That's probably -- that's something we started on, frankly, last year because it's one of those things where it's not important, it's not important, and then we're going to find out one day that it's important.

For example, just how fast you are to home plate. Make a pitch. Make a pitch. Then we're going to find out that being a certain -- your delivery being quick enough to home matters in this new world to conserve your pickoff attempts.

So I think that could be the place where some pitchers get uncomfortable the most. I think there will be -- we will have instances where the pitch clock causes drama and probably unfortunate drama, but I think it's kind of just -- I don't think we'll have a lot of it. There will be a nice -- there will be a game for talk show radio to talk about a lot and us to wring our hands over, but it will make the game better.

Start here

It's on us as managers, the other part with pitchers, to help them just manage it and be better in it, and there's probably a little more strategy involved in it.

Q. You said that was something you were already thinking about this past year knowing that it was coming?

CRAIG COUNSELL: Yes.

Q. Does that mean -- no. Just because we had begun talking to our pitchers about why we emphasize finding ways to -- it's finding ways to be good to home plate without picking off.

So you can do that by being very quick in your delivery, like in the time. You can do that by varying kind of your holds. You can do that by going really fast or holding the ball and going -- holding the ball for a long time and going slow. All those things are on the table, I think, and should be weapons in a pitcher's kind of arsenal as far as holding runners.

Q. I think it's an interesting example of the fact that like all these rules have very literal intended effects, more offense, more stolen bases, that type of thing. But the strategy is obviously in finding the loopholes or whatever. How much are you thinking about that with the defensive positioning, I guess, as sort of what is allowed?

CRAIG COUNSELL: I haven't -- that's what the most ideas around loopholes have come in. I haven't heard a loophole that I think is significantly like advantageous at all. I think some people will overthink this one too. I think there's such a thing -- I think we do that in this game a lot too, and that's bad.

Right now I don't have a great strategy. I think the advantage is -- like our biggest right now, to me on our roster, our biggest advantaged hitter with defensive positioning is Rowdy Tellez. He'll get the biggest advantage out of this. And it advantages teams with good defenders, athletic defenders.

Q. Athleticism is a word that we've heard a lot of your fellow skippers throw around today. Do you sort of get that sense that just general athleticism is going to be getting more emphasis going forward?

CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, it's being rewarded, and I think that's what we all see. The rule changes are rewarding flat out players that can run. That's what's happening. That move well.

That doesn't mean that -- the most important skill is still going to be around the strike zone, a ball and a strike. That's still number one. But it's a good thing that we're starting to reward the better athletes, I think. That's a good thing.

Q. What have you thought about the trades that have happened recently? You've lost two good Big League players in Wong and Renfroe, good defenders, both of them. Was this a little different than past off-seasons where the club has kind of added, added, added, and now the trades are a little more complicated? It's like a piece gets taken away in order to add a different piece.

CRAIG COUNSELL: I don't know if I like that because that's just a snapshot to December 5th or whatever that we'll be adding. But I also think that the reason this -- the way I'm looking at this, and I think it's important to look at it, is that we have young position players that are ready to play in the Big Leagues. We have to have players like that. Every team frankly does. I don't -- maybe not every team, but most teams you have to develop players from your Minor Leagues and then you have to give them a shot.

That's what we're going to do, and that's what's going to happen. They're good young players, and they're going to be very good Major League players, and I'm excited about doing that. That's an exciting thing to be able to do for your organization. I don't think it means that we have to take a step back. I don't think it means that.

Q. So much can change between now and then, but like right now is things -- at this particular point in time, is Brice Turang the front-runner to get the most at-bats at second?

CRAIG COUNSELL: I think he's one of the players that is in this group, yeah. It's Brice, and then the outfielders between Mitchell and Frelick and Ruiz and Wiemer, those are all guys -- and even Chourio at some point. Those are all guys that could impact us.

Q. In '23 you think Chourio, if things break right --

CRAIG COUNSELL: I don't know.

Q. You said that last year.

CRAIG COUNSELL: I don't know why. I think he did so much, then why would we just say no to it?

Q. When you missed the postseason by one game, how much are you thinking over every loss in the sort of weeks and months after?

CRAIG COUNSELL: We tell ourselves -- I think every team tells -- you try to convince yourself that every game matters and you play it like it matters to the best of your -- you know, still keeping your players healthy.

But yeah, that's just the margins of the game. We play all these games, we play this incredible number of games, and then we know the season for 8 of the 12 playoff teams is going to come down to the last five games of the season because that's how thin the margins are.

That's why you use that every year and you try to make the best of it, and it also just hopefully when players -- we talk about it because we've made the playoffs, except for maybe '21, in a very -- as close as you can pull it. So we've lived in that world for a long time.

A couple years we made it, and then last year we didn't.

Q. You said that you're not done, so it's not necessarily that you're losing pieces this off-season because there could still be additions, but when you do come so close, I guess is it hard to see pieces like Kolten and Renfroe leave, where you're like, well, if we just added a little more, we'd be over the top?

CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, and I think that's something in our market that we've realized this is how we're going to have to operate. I don't always find it frustrating. I think it's the world we're in. I'm good with it, and we're good with it.

It just means that -- what it means it that our off-season doesn't look like this other team's off-season. And that's okay. But I think we've shown, and everybody in our organization has shown, we can still find a way to put a really good team out on the field, and then players change year to year too. We know that.

Q. How do you keep that from looming over Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff, Williams, they're coming to that period in their --

CRAIG COUNSELL: I think those guys have -- I think those guys trust what we're doing to try to put really good teams on the field. And I think we've shown that and they believe in that.

Q. I also meant that they could be next. It's coming where they're going to be the guy that could be out there --

CRAIG COUNSELL: Players play in the last year of their contract. Trea Turner just played in the last year of his contract. Aaron Judge played in the last year of his contract. That's the life of a player. They could -- I guess Turner couldn't go back to his old team. But the guys could play in the last year of their contract and end up with their old team.

That's the life of a player, man. They deal with -- players learn to put all that in their who they are and what they're doing and who they're playing for and make the best of it.

Q. You guys have been able to get pretty consistent production from your bullpen year in and year out. It's pretty hard to do. You've had some constants. Hader was a constant. I think Devin Williams is a constant. But when you think through putting together a bullpen from year to year, how much do you have to approach from the mindset of coming from a clean slate?

CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, it's certainly the position that you have to try to wipe away things faster since what happened last year or even happened two days ago, you have to kind of treat it as a little bit of a cleaner slate.

There are some players that separate themselves for sure, and you have to count on those guys. But it is the position that -- we're all scared of the volatility in the bullpen. Everybody knows that. And because it -- part of it is because they're not getting as many opportunities as we think they're getting. They're just not.

So they can pitch -- you know, a bad pitch in a couple wrong spots in a season can make their season look dramatically different. That's the reality of that job, their profession unfortunately. So we have to make sure when we evaluate it, we evaluate it as objectively as we can. That's hard to do for everybody in this job.

Q. What do you think you have in Jesse Winker?

CRAIG COUNSELL: We think we're getting a really good bat and a guy who's hit at a really, really high level. He didn't hit at that level last year. That's why he was available. But we think he's a player that is going to return to those levels that he had.

Q. Do you chalk that up to just physical stuff he was fighting through? Have you gotten to talk to him about it?

CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, I think he had physical issues last year. There's no question about it. But I think Jesse would tell you the same thing. You don't get to like -- there's no do-over. I didn't have a good year. What else are you going to say?

You can why until you kind of change that. The job now is to figure out to be better, and that's what you try to do.

Q. How about Toro, the other guy in that trade? He's played a bunch of positions, but it's the bat that's kind of been the thing where teams want it. They expect a lot from the bat.

CRAIG COUNSELL: So Abraham, he's a player that made it to the Big Leagues at a young age and kind of varying amounts of success. He's struggled a little bit at times, but he has had some success, and he's young.

Like keeping note of players that can stick in the Big Leagues for the most part and made their debut at that age and now he has a thousand plate appearances under his belt, and a good time for him to take the next step.

Q. Do you see moving him around a bunch?

CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, I would see him as a player that could play multiple positions, absolutely.