THE MEMORIAL TOURNAMENT

May 24, 2000

Hal Sutton

HAL SUTTON: Well, it's always neat to come back here. Jack runs a great tournament here, and he's been so special to the game. So, to be here at Memorial here seems like the place to be, doesn't it? As far as the golf course, the golf course is great. Zero poa annua on the greens, and we just need Mother Nature to cooperate and not rain on us all the time. But the golf course is great.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I like it better that way, but it favors a big hitter when it's slow like this. Some of the changes, like the change at the 5th hole really favors a big hitter. You know there was a way to slide that ball on the green for a guy who doesn't hit it quite that far the way it was. Now, it's pretty penal the way it is now.

HAL SUTTON: I don't know that I hit it in the rough out there, so --.

HAL SUTTON: I didn't notice it bad. I didn't think it was all that bad around the greens.

HAL SUTTON: The fairways are nice (laughs).

HAL SUTTON: I would think there probably will be. Jack's been so monumental in the game, he's deserving of every award that he ever gets, both inside the game and outside the game.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I'd say yes, but I've missed the last two or three years because it didn't work out in the scheduling. But getting here and going around the golf course and realizing how good the golf course is, you know, I'm sorry I missed those last few years.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I appreciate the vote of confidence, there. I like Memorial. I like Muirfield Village. I think it sets up good for my game. I like faster greens. These greens get pretty fast. It's a little different golf course now than it's been in the past. Some of the changes that they have made are different, you know. The greens, at 5, 6, 7 are different, I haven't seen 15 and 16 but they say 15 is dramatically different, so it is a little bit different golf course. But it's a great golf course. I mean, drive the ball well here and then you've got to be precise with your irons. I don't think it's quite as hard a driving golf course as a lot of other people -- a lot of other places we play, but you've got to be precise with your irons.

HAL SUTTON: Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to go see them.

HAL SUTTON: I was just going to say, there's barely been time for me to do the things that I need to do. It's been one interview right after another, in other words. But go right ahead.

HAL SUTTON: No, please don't.

HAL SUTTON: Yes. U.S. Open 1981 at Merion.

HAL SUTTON: Terrifying. I played with both he and Hale Irwin, and, you know, I felt pretty out matched there, so to speak. I felt like a little guy. I was like 7-over after the first seven holes or something and I walked up to him on the 8th tee and told him, "Has anyone told you you are very intimidating." He looked at me and kind of smiled. You couldn't tell if he was being friendly with it or not. He said, "Hal, I would like to see you play well, so would everybody else, so why don't you relax and play well." And I ended up playing really well from there in. I missed the cut by one shot but I think I was like 3-under for the remainder of the holes before the 36-hole cut. I just dug my hole too deep. But I wished I would have cleared the air with him from the beginning. (Laughter.)

HAL SUTTON: Well, you know when I think of Jack Nicklaus, I think of his focus. I mean, he's always looked so focused about what he was doing. I don't think there's ever been a player that's ever matched his -- you know a lot of people saw his course management. I saw him always focused on what he was trying to do and he always seemed to make the right decision, it seemed like and I think it was because he was so in tune with what he was doing.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I've played the last two tournaments I didn't play very well I was disappointed with the two finishes there. But I feel pretty good right now. My ankle was bothering me when I took off, and I had rested it this last week, didn't play much this last week; so I think I will play better this week.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I think for after your tee shot, it's one of the top golf courses we play. And that's what I was trying to say; you've got to be pretty precise with your irons, and if you're not, it's pretty demanding if you've got to chip and putt around here.

HAL SUTTON: So from that perspective, I think good iron players tend to fare well here.

HAL SUTTON: Golf-wise you're talking about?

HAL SUTTON: I rested. I didn't do anything. I played with my kids. We didn't do anything. I hit balls three days. Pretty boring, actually.

HAL SUTTON: Yeah. Without a doubt. I think so.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I don't know. I mean, this has been building. I started playing good about three years ago, so, you know, there's a lot of reasons why. I mean you're asking me why I'm playing better now than I did, than I have in a long time. Is that what your question is?

HAL SUTTON: I don't know why Watson did it. I can't answer that question. I can tell you about Hal Sutton. I didn't want to end my career on the note that I was ending it on, five or six years ago. I just saw myself as a better player than that, and I didn't think that was the way to end that. And I had to rededicate myself to try to do better. So what I was talking about that I thought was so great about Jack Nicklaus, that's what I try, to get up every morning, try to focus on the important things that I've got to do. If I'm at home -- you asked me what I did last week, I'm trying to focus and be the best dad and husband I can be. When I'm out here, I'm trying to be the best player I can be. And I think that's what life is all about, and it takes 35 or 40 years old until we really realize how to do that, you know. It's like, okay, right now, that's what's important. I've got to take care of this right now, and two hours later, I've got to move over and take care of that right then and forget what I was doing two hours ago. That's a hard task.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I'm hitting the ball probably equally as good as I did in the early 80s, but my short game is so much better than it's ever been. In a way -- I was looking at the stats the other day, I've kind of backed off on greens in regulation. I'm hitting a little over 70 percent of the greens. In a way, it's because my chipping is so much better, I've been aggressive with my iron play. I've missed a few more greens with being aggressive with it, whereas, I would probably hit more greens if I wasn't a better chipper because I wouldn't want to miss the green, if you follow what I'm saying. So, you know, every time I think I've figured out those stats, I figure out something else, a reasoning why they are the way they are.

HAL SUTTON: No. But I make the times that I'm there count. That's the real thing. You know, a long time ago, a guy told me -- I used to go out and hit 500 or 600 balls, and he said the real way to practice is to hit 25 balls or 50 balls, or whatever the number is, but make sure they are all quality shots. And I didn't really know what that meant. I would think, well, numbers is the way we do this. If I hit it enough and repeat this action enough, then it will be muscle memory. But now I slow down when I practice. I didn't hit balls nearly as fast as I used to hit them. Try to figure out: What did I feel on that last shot; what was I thinking on that last shot; what did we get from that thought process and that feel. And then try to apply that on the next shot.

HAL SUTTON: Well, you know, he's a human being, man. I'm telling you, that's all I know how to say. Let me tell you exactly how I see this from my perspective. I have the greatest admiration for Tiger Woods. I think it's phenomenal at 24 years old if that's what's -- is that what he is? It's phenomenal that he can take the focus that I told you all that I admire so much about Jack Nicklaus, and at 24 years old, he can apply that; he can take probably -- he's got more talent than anybody else in the game and he can take that and apply that focus and that talent. I mean, he lives up to his No. 1 billing, but he's still a human being, and I'm not going to put him any different than that. And I mean, humans, I mean, I think -- I don't know how many seats there are here and I don't know how many vacancies there are, the only seats in here that are filled with somebody that hasn't made a mistake are the vacant ones. (Laughter.) And the rest of them, we have all made our mistakes, and he'll make some, too, and that's okay. If I were advising Tiger Woods right now -- and he doesn't need my help, believe you me. I read his comments after that and I thought they were pretty good comments. "Hey, I just made a mistake; cost me the tournament." What else can you say? I mean, he doesn't have to say that very much. (Laughs).

HAL SUTTON: What causes me to think about Payne Stewart? I mean, every week when I show up at a golf tournament and I look down to my right or left, wherever he would have been, you know, I just think, "Well, Payne's locker ought to be there," but it's not. The fact that he had won the AT&T, you know, at Pebble Beach and the fact that he had won the U.S. Open in such dramatic fashion last year, and that he's not going to be there to defend his title is -- it will be pretty hard not to think about Payne Stewart during the U.S. Open. He had a passion for that U.S. Open just like he had for the Ryder Cup.

HAL SUTTON: Yeah. You know, that can be a very dramatic change in a person's life. That ball can respond completely different than the ball he's been playing with. And I doubt very seriously he spent a lot of time in a lot of different elements in a lot of competitive situations playing that other ball. I know he had not, as a matter of fact. But I will say that Tiger is a sharp guy. He probably -- he can probably make that adjustment. Although, there are things that can happen in the heat of the battle, you know, that that ball responded differently than you thought it should have, and it aggravates you and you can't get your mind off of that. And you would think, well, if I had my other ball, that would not have happened and I wouldn't be in the situation that I'm in right now. Then you start second-guessing yourself. So, yes, I've had similar circumstances, and yes, it did bite me in the rear end, too. So when you start changing your equipment, you'd better have put a lot of thought into that.

HAL SUTTON: To adjust to another golf ball --.

HAL SUTTON: He's going from a wound golf ball -- he's going to the Nike ball; right? Is that what he's going to? I don't know, is that what he's doing? Okay. That's a multi-covered ball, not a wound ball; so, I mean, it's a different ball. It will react differently.

HAL SUTTON: There will be an adjustment period, I don't care how good a player you are. There will be a mental adjustment to it, too. I mean, that ball will react differently than the ball he's been playing. And he may be right on top of it. He may be well aware of all the different ways that ball responds, you know. I'm sure he thinks he is.

HAL SUTTON: I don't know. We'll just have to wait and see. I've never played that ball. I've never hit that ball; so I don't know what it will do. I didn't -- a Strata ball is a multi-covered ball like that. The difference I've noticed in the ball is -- and I don't know what any of the properties of the Nike ball so -- I mean, it's a shot in the dark as to what I think it will do.

HAL SUTTON: It's just going to react differently than what the ball that he did play. It will have different properties than the ball that he played with before, and it will react differently for him than it would for me. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure he's waiting and seeing, what's it going to do in these situation.

HAL SUTTON: Max Fly.

HAL SUTTON: No. If anything that I had in the early 80s that at times was good for me to have, but at other times it cost me tournaments, was I was really aggressive in the early 80s. And now I'm a bit more -- I pick my spots.

HAL SUTTON: I'm going to say the same thing everybody else did: 8, 9 and 10 is the stretch you're going to have to play good. Probably three of the greatest holes in golf, and they are all back-to-back there, and they are holes that can produce big numbers. They are holes that you're probably not going to get through there under par. If you are going to get through there under par, it will be 1-under. You're not going to birdie all of them. You're probably hoping to get through there even par, you know. And you'd better get some birdies in those open holes, those opening holes. I just think it's a great test. I mean, it's like several different golf courses there. Easy, hard, and then the finishing holes are kind of in between. Dramatic with the ocean there coming in, looking out over the ocean.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I think you have to stay in the present, you know. You've got to stay in this little circle around you. And realizing that you can only do something about what you're doing and taking -- and not allowing other things to enter into your thinking, you know, what somebody else is doing or anything else, and you just stay completely in -- in the present with what you're doing, not with what anybody else is doing. And that's what I see them do so well. I mean, you know, very seldom do you see Tiger Woods adjust his game for what somebody else is doing. I mean, we can't hardly get him in that position. We're having to adjust our game based on what he's doing.

HAL SUTTON: I think it's learned. I don't think it's something that people just automatically have. You know, I think, you know, you look back through history of golf, you know and there's those guys that you think about, like Ben Hogan that had those steely eyes -- I heard Ken Venturi refer to it on TV, that look in his eyes. To me what he's describing in that look is he's looking through things. It's like nothing else exists except what he's doing. I mean, I can remember playing with Jack Nicklaus when he was playing really good. You know, it was like he looked right at you, but you weren't even there. And that told me that his mind was on what he was doing. I mean, not on what he was looking at.

HAL SUTTON: Well, he was bigger than life to me. He was my idol. So when they are placing the expectations on you that you are going to be able to do some of the same things that he did, when I've been telling myself all along that this guy has -- you know, he's done things that are impossible to do. I mean, he is my -- he is what I aspire to be, you know. All of the sudden when people start talking to you like that, it's like, "Wait a minute, I don't know if I'm ready for this or not." This is what I've idolized all of my life, not expected to do.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I've never taken a par 5 and turned it into a par 4 because I've never seen one of them that the green was built to be a par 4. The green was always built to be a par 5. And I just -- I'm not fond of that. You know, at the end of the day, all we're going to do is add up our score; so it's not really going to make any difference. I mean, I could build a case for it making a difference, but that's part of what I'm talking about, about staying focused, you know. Instead of getting caught up in the fact that now we're having to play this stinking hole as a par 4 that's not really built to be a par 4. All we're really going to do is add up our score at the end of the day. That's what we're going to do, sign off on our card at the end of the day, and that's what's going to count.

HAL SUTTON: Well, I touched on it a little bit ago, that I just didn't see my career ending there. I just didn't want to be there. You know what, it's funny. I think back about that and I just never ever thought I wouldn't get out of that. It actually looks worse to me now looking back on it than with me being in it. Because when you're in a situation like that, you're trying to make the best out of it all the time, and if I'd have really told myself how bad it was, I probably would have thought my -- it was insurmountable, that I could not get out of it. So it looks a lot worse from this perspective than it did from being in it.

HAL SUTTON: I don't. It's just going to be another U.S. Open to me. And to me, U.S. Opens are all about playing great golf courses in tough conditions, you know. And that's what I try to prepare myself for.

HAL SUTTON: Yeah. Yeah, I would. 7 is -- it's such a feel hole, first of all. If there's no wind blowing at all, it's still a feel hole, because you're hitting downhill with a half-shot, practically. And then when the wind starts blowing hard, then you're pulling a lot of club for a little itty-bitty hole downhill. So it's all feel.

HAL SUTTON: Not everybody plays that way. A lot of people play exactly by the yardage. They know exactly how far to hit this club, and that's what makes that hole hard.

HAL SUTTON: 5-iron. I mean, it wasn't one of those that I'm just all-out killing, but one of these where I took it about shoulder high and took it about shoulder high over here, and trying to get it to go that way (forward), you know. I knew that wind was doing this with it (pushing forward) you know.

HAL SUTTON: 106 yards straight downhill, yeah, it is. Almost putt it down the hill, you know.

HAL SUTTON: Actually, I think knocked it just over the back, left edge that day. You know, it was so hard not to pull it a little bit, too, when you hit that shot, because, you know you just feels like there's a little room over to the left over there (laughs).

HAL SUTTON: Well, it was exactly like I remembered it being: Really difficult. I thought that was one of the hardest golf courses I've ever seen last year. I remember calling home after I played the first practice round on it and I said, "320 might win this event." I mean, you walk down the 6th hole and the second shot area there, it's about eight yards wide down there, you know. Anyway.

HAL SUTTON: I didn't play very well that year, I remember that. I mean, it's a great test. A lot of history there. I'm looking forward to going over for the tournament.

HAL SUTTON: No. Actually I played very poorly when I was there last. Not because of the golf course. It's just that I wasn't playing very well when I went over there.

HAL SUTTON: It might have been then. I don't remember having been back since then.