U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

July 7, 1996

Dave Stockton

DAVE STOCKTON: Neither Charles or I made a birdie. It was -- I think it was kind of a typical day. I knew somebody is probably going to make a charge. I didn't anticipate it being quite as full force as Irwin put on me, but he drug Raymond along with him; meanwhile Bob Charles and I managed to play 18 holes without making a birdie. I just can't tell you how relaxed I was out there to the extent -- that is probably the finest round of golf I have ever played in a Major Championship in a final round with anything at stake. I had the advantage. It has been a long time since I played a USGA event where I wasn't the one trying to manufacture something. And usually when you try to manufacture something in a USGA event to make up ground, you usually get killed; at least I do being aggressive. So I tried my best to go out there and be, you know, patient and aggressive whenever I could. I mean, I put -- every time I had the ball in the right spot. I put it short of the pin on 1 and just left it right on the edge, 3 inches to the right. I get on 2, I put it in the left rough off the tee and hit a great pitching wedge to about seven or eight feet, and misread the putt. Was close on 3 and don't make it. I can keep right on going, 4 was 2-putt par. 5 was a 2-putt par. 6 is a par 5 is a 2-putt par. 7, same thing, just on the back fringe, putted down. 8, I putt missed the tee shot in the right rough, but got it on the back edge of the green, had a 2 good putt par. I hit a good tee shot on 9, but the wind didn't take it and I was on the edge of the rough with Charles, and had a 5-iron out and looked at it and made my first change from being conservative to being aggressive. I said there is no sense laying up with a 5-iron because I am going to have an 8-iron at this pin. So I took 4-wood and ran it down a little bit on the up-slope. Hit a good wedge out of the short cut there, I'd say, about 20 foot; just missed it. So I was even at that time. At that time I knew Irwin was 8. So now I had to simply make birdies. And I got aggressive off 10. I took a 4-wood instead of-- I left here last night, went to the range, practiced with a 3-iron for about 25 minutes because I anticipated using the 3-iron off of 10. But I got there and again, felt like I wanted to be aggressive. I hit a 4-wood off the tee at 10 right down the middle. Hit a wedge to about 14 feet behind the hole and left the putt short. And then hit a good 8-iron to 11, about, I'd say, 12, 15 feet behind the hole, 12 would be closer, and it lipped out. And a good 2-putt par from the back fringe on 12. And after driving in the left rough and then had 13 -- and I come down 13, and I realized that Irwin is 10-under, so I am only two ahead. This is the problem with looking at scoreboards, you know exactly where you stand. But that is more fun that way. My drive didn't get over the hill, it was right -- I don't know, it landed soft or whatever, because when I hit it, I saw it bounce. But I was on the up-slope, and instead of having a 180 or 90, I had 230. I hit 4-wood and Naltbie kidded me after, he said I don't know how it fit but the thing just landed short of the green and didn't bounce before the green and just stopped dead. I chipped it, I'd say, six or seven feet, and I thought it was an inside left to left edge putt, and I thought I had made it. I hit good putt. I looked up, all of a sudden the putt started to break left. I thought I was going to break right. I missed that. That was the first time it bothered me at all, because that was a hole -- I didn't care what Hale was doing as long as I could make more birdies or at this point "a birdie." I just wanted to throw a 13 up there on the board, which is -- what I wanted to do early, is make a couple of birdies. My goal was obviously to make more birdies than bogeys, make some early, kind of take the fire out of these guys. But 14 I misjudged the wind, hit a 9-iron that came up on the front edge, and 2-putted for par. And then 15, hit a good drive 3-wood off the tee and hit an 8-iron to about, I am going to say, seven feet, maybe eight foot, I guess. But, again, I thought I made this putt. And it went right over the right edge. And I go to 16, and good tee shot, tried to lay up on top of the hill with a 4-wood and it goes all the way to the bottom, which is not where I wanted to be. But a half wedge to the pin at 16, just before I get to the top of the hill I hear a roar, so I know Irwin is only one behind and promptly chunked my chip shot short of the green to beat my actual first missed green of the day where I can't putt. I had a hard chip shot, chipped it about two foot and made it for par. One of those kind that -- you get more momentum out of making a par like that, obviously, than after 14 holes in a row of 2-putts. I really felt kind of pretty good. I was kind of excited that something happened, something different, anyway. Went to 17, saw Hale hit it to the right and make bogey. And I hit a good shot, but I pushed mine slightly, ended up the same place he was, maybe a little bit further up, and I had a very good lie in the rough. And I hit a good chip shot, really good chip shot. I had my strong wedge out first, and then changed my 60 degree, thank goodness, because the green ended up being harder than I thought. And the ball almost lipped out and went went by about six foot, I guess, and I made it. I was so excited, I finally made a putt that I couldn't see the bottom of the hole when I started. I mean, I hit it, it is a tough putt, about a three inch outside of the left edge putt; hard breaking to the right and I drilled it right in the middle. And I was moving. By the time it was a foot in the hole, I was already right behind it to get it out of the hole to get to the next tee because I was -- that was all I needed. Good tee shot on 18; not killed, but down the middle. And hit a 6-iron. After I saw Hale's trouble, didn't make any difference. I knew that I was going to be the champion. It was a fun walk.

DAVE STOCKTON: Well, everybody says that the seniors, -- they shouldn't count these as Majors because they are really not Majors. But you are beating the same guys that you had to beat to win the other ones. I mean, you got Stockton, Irwin, Floyd right at the top. We have butted heads, I mean, at Congressional in '76, I had to make a 15-footer to beat Raymond or I had been in a playoff with Raymond and Don January and '70 of course I holed off Palmer. I would have to say playing head-to-head with Palmer and against 40,000 screaming maniacs rooting for Palmer to win his only major he never won, is Tulsa, is tough. This was a little more of a walk in the park for me, but I can't tell you -- describe the sensation of winning a USGA event. I have played one National Junior; played one National Amateur, I have played many on the regular tour, and I can honestly tell you that I had a lot more fun this week than I have ever had, and I had it all week. I think you can tell that. I came in. I was 13th on the money list. I wasn't the overwhelming choice to get interviewed by any of you because I never got invited over here, and rightly so, I haven't had the kind of year that deserved to come in. But not winning in 13 months is now over and you never know, I may not go another 13 months without winning here. I might just be able to do it again. This is far -- in relation to the other Majors, a totally different sensation. At Congressional, I hit two fairways the back 9. I mean, I almost killed Ronnie on 14, hitting it nine miles into the trees. I saw everybody and every tree on the course and held on somehow or other. This was -- I mean, I felt like a player out there. I felt my golf game, if there was any demonstration needed, that Dave Stockton's golf game has improved on the Senior Tour versus what it was like on the regular Tour, today was a pretty good indication. I would love to get the footage of NBC of this because I know I put some quality swings on it from the first tee shot right to the last.

DAVE STOCKTON: Yeah, well, but if you all weren't out there walking, you might be assuming that I was making nothing but putts. Believe me, this was a lot of fun because it was more than putting that has me sitting here right now.

DAVE STOCKTON: He has got to write tomorrow. I am sorry, Jerry.

DAVE STOCKTON: You don't wear shorts on Sunday?

JERRY POTTER: I have one clean pair left. I want to wear them tomorrow driving to Detroit.

DAVE STOCKTON: Okay.

DAVE STOCKTON: Yeah, I mean, you come up on a tight hole and I just -- I drilled it. I mean, I never missed it. I never -- you know, I mean, you know, I know what it is to play wild golf and you just have to keep chopping it out and chopping it on and making putts. This was tee-to-green as flawless as I have ever played in a major.

DAVE STOCKTON: I hadn't won one, so guess I would have some doubts. Sure, it is easier when you have won one. But I think it is the most exacting of any of the Majors that we play. USGA historically sets it up with the higher rough and they have the faster greens and it is just, you know, this -- you know, you can see by the scores. Guys are expecting to shoot low and they are very difficult to score on. This gets a monkey off my back. This is very, very special for me.

DAVE STOCKTON: I was in a bad situation, first of all, on the third shot because I was -- like I said, I tried to hit a 4-wood lay it up on top of the hill. And you go all the way down the bottom I got 60 yards on a downslope and I have got to get the ball to stop and it was a tough shot and I just chunked it. I did not hit a good shot. Now, I am in this -- now I am in the deep rough. It's the first time I had really seen the deep rough all day with the exception of the tee shot on 12, I believe - 9 and 12. And it's the first time I had to chip out of it in quite a while and I hit a hell of a chip shot. It was not an easy one by any stretch of the imagination because I only had like six yards of green to work with and it was mounded in front and I -- you know, it was -- that was probably one of the shots or "the shot" that won the tournament for me was getting that close enough to make the par.

DAVE STOCKTON: 16.

DAVE STOCKTON: Yeah.

DAVE STOCKTON: Well, I knew-- as soon as I saw him make bogey then I knew I was going to 18 with no worse than a one shot lead.

DAVE STOCKTON: You know, getting it up-and-down after finally missing a green. I hadn't missed one in 15 holes. I finally missed one where I can't putt and the worst place I have had it all day; much more difficult than the chip shot I had to get up-and-down on 17. I had a much easier chip on 17 than I did on 16.

DAVE STOCKTON: You know, I welcome the challenge. It was -- you know, if I didn't welcome the challenge. I wouldn't be looking at the leader board. I would put myself in a vacuum, but I come out here to enjoy what I do. I have a lot of fun playing golf. I enjoy the people. It was interesting. I get up with the wave of the emotion; the way people are yelling and cheering for everybody and I think that is all part of it. That is just my makeup. I am not type of person that goes, okay, I am going to ignore everybody for four hours, I can't do that. So it was kind of fun to have to be challenged, like I said earlier the only the first bad bump in the road was when I did not birdie 13 which I anticipated birdieing 13. I mean, I hit 4 quality shots and walked off with a 5 and I am going "this is not good." But you know, it was fun to have the challenge. I don't shy away from the challenge. That is why I have been a pretty good front-runner all my life. I just, on the regular Tour, never got in front that much.

DAVE STOCKTON: Yeah. Pin was back about another 35 feet yesterday.

DAVE STOCKTON: Today I was 61. Yesterday I was about 68.

DAVE STOCKTON: I never got the oh-oh feeling. It was just I had to make birdies. I thought that was nice that Hale was doing it. I was mad that he was making such an effort because he has already got a major this year anyway. I didn't know what in the hell he was working so hard for trying to keep me from getting to go to Cobble for the Slam or Hawaii for the Tournament of Champions, all these things. It crossed my mind that he has three of these darn trophies at home from the USGA, why in the hell is he working that hard. (LAUGHTER) I was glad he kind of cooled off at the end, because he doesn't need that many.

DAVE STOCKTON: Yeah, I had gone in the left rough and hit wedge that I thought was good; bounced all the way about three feet just shy of the high fringe in the back of the green and I had about a 45, 50-footer. Left it about six feet short, six or seven feet and made it.

DAVE STOCKTON: I just -- I have always been a really good putter. That is the basis of my game. If nothing else, I have sold a few more copies of my book. Three months ago I came out with a book entitled "PUTT TO WIN" so it should sell a lot better after this week, I imagine. I am out there whiffing them all and saying I am not helping my cause by doing that. I can't tell you. I think the nerves -- obviously the longer putters help a lot of people putt better. I have always been blessed with good feel. I think I putt basically as good as I used to, really.

DAVE STOCKTON: Yes.

DAVE STOCKTON: No.

DAVE STOCKTON: Yeah.

DAVE STOCKTON: That was the first obvious chance I could of laid up at something and I went the other way. I went aggressive. But every single shot I hit -- one way I monitor how I am playing is am I getting inside my competitor; am I in the proper position. Bob put it to the back of the first green I put it below the hole putting uphill. Number 2, he had maybe a 30-footer. I had maybe 8 or 10-footer straight up the hill. I mean, I hit a great shot at 2. The par 3, he put it through the green. I put it may be 15, 16 foot -- a little bit above the hole but pretty easy putt. I was in the center of the green on 4 to the pin. I was in the center of the green to the right on 5 to the pin, pin-high. Center of the green on 6; so forth. No, I was not playing safe, but every single hole I am putting it right where I want it and all of them are makeable length; just none of them particularly were going in. I was being very aware of my speed. I very seldom had a second putt that was more than, I'd say, a foot. Because obviously you knew the greens were going to be a little faster today. You had to be a little more careful.

DAVE STOCKTON: I had my emotions under control this week. I had a reason. She was right, I think I came in with a three weeks off probably as rested as I have ever been, and the walk up -- I thought about it on the 17th tee as I am watching Hale. I am going this is not good if I go to 18 with a one shot lead, there is no way I can go over to the side and talk to her and walk up with her because my mind is still going to be focused on trying to make a 4. When I saw Hale having his troubles, it allowed me to loosen up a little bit and go over and talk to Cathy and walk up the side, which was special. It is neat.

DAVE STOCKTON: Well, we just, you know -- we basically -- she was all excited and congratulated me and we were, you know, kind of talking about our good fortune. She is not aware at the moment of what this was going to do for us.

DAVE STOCKTON: Well, I thought the last three played easy today because 17 and 18 were downwind. First part of the question, on 16, I fluffed a lob wedge, obviously, my 60 degree and I took my 56 degree, my normal sand wedge for the chip shot; hit a bump-and-run with that. But the other question, 17, 18 I thought played easier. There was nothing difficult about the pin at 17. There was nothing tricky; wasn't near the ridge of the green. It was toward the back. Actually it was a very good spot for the gallery that was sitting in the back in the bleachers. I didn't think it was difficult at all. I was kind of surprised it wasn't down in the front where if somebody got it backwards, they would have had trouble putting down the hill at it or something; probably the easiest spot could have had. 18 was a very good pin, obviously tucked in behind the bunker.

DAVE STOCKTON: Well, I was in a different element than I have ever been in a USGA event because I wasn't in a position I had to force something to make up two shots or four shots. I was in a position that I just had to go out there and play today, hopefully make more -- if I had made more birdies -- if I had made one more birdie than bogeys, I would have finished 13 under; there was no way anybody would have caught me. As it turned out, I am kind of paring along. It was a relaxing day for me from the point of view, as good as my long game was, it allowed me to, you know, just play each hole the way Canterbury says it is supposed to be played. There weren't any adventures which is unusual for me.

DAVE STOCKTON: I think to a great extent it does, yeah, because it -- I was pleasantly surprised when I came out on the Senior Tour and took me 6 to 8 months to get my feet under me and started doing things that I had been taking for granted for so many years. I hadn't played competitively, grinding it out, like I did in the late '60s, early '70s. To come out here and all of a sudden find, geez, if you do spend time working on my golf game, you're a pretty darn good player. My walls at home from the regular Tour are covered with Golf World's for instance, that have nothing about Scrambler Stockton wins in Milwaukee, one-putts his way to whatever, you know -- it is, you know -- but on the Senior Tour it has been totally different, Jerry, this would vindicate a lot of what I have been thinking in myself with my golf game - has made giant strides out here on the Senior Tour. And it is -- I can't tell you the fun I have. I am a competitor, bar none, and all of a sudden, to be out here and have an opportunity to win tournaments on a weekly basis, it is just -- -- it has been the most fun I could imagine. Now to pull off the biggest prize we have is really special.

DAVE STOCKTON: I think that is very true because -- you got to understand, I did not play as good on the regular Tour and what happened is when I started doing all the corporate outings, I cut down how many tournaments I'd play. I would plan out where I was going to do my corporate outings; then I figured out where I was going to play the tournaments. After dropping all my corporate outings for a year to help publicize the Ryder Cup to try to get the Cup back, I intended to start the Senior Tour and to still do corporate outings, but I had instant fun when I came out on the Senior Tour and I realized how competitive it was. It just made me totally, just blow off the corporate world for a while to just -- try to see if I could be good and so looking back on it, if I hadn't been doing 90 corporate outings a year and probably playing five or six more tournaments, but being focused in those tournaments rather than playing a Monday, Tuesday outing before I played it, yeah, I think I would have won a lot more. I am very proud of my record on the regular Tour, but this is also special here because this gives me one more major on the seniors than it did on the regulars.

DAVE STOCKTON: Corporate outings started with American Airlines in 1968. '68; then when I won Southern Hills in Tulsa, gave me a 10-year exemption, which I was instrumental in getting. If I had won in '69 I would have had a lifetime exemption. I was one of the ones didn't think I could ever win it and I really helped to push through this 10-year thing and I won it. I said, wait a minute guys, in fact it went through in July and I won it in August, I am going we weren't thinking very good. In fact, I was the first PGA Champion to win twice and get 16 years total - that wasn't too bright either.

DAVE STOCKTON: Well, it is just -- we never pay up because he doesn't like -- I couldn't believe it he wouldn't give me the first day in the tiebreaker. When I shoot 70 with five birdies and he has 76 with five birdies, I got to win on the score. He said we are not counting that, that doesn't count. It is just something that -- to motivate him. He thinks that he can kill me on birdies and, you know, he should - he hits it 40 yards past me every tee. All the par fives are par fours for him, but for some reason or other he has a hard time catching up with me.

DAVE STOCKTON: Well, again, it is the time of year -- I mean, most of my wins are all in July and August. Historically, although the two wins in October in the CBS Golf Classic -- two -- just two -- were in the final. We lost twice; we won twice. But it has got a lot to do with the greens. I think in the north there is a belt which I mentioned across the Great Lakes, Chicago up into New York, you can take Oakmont, you can take any of the ones in Chicago, Bent Grass Greens, extremely fast; that is the kind of greens I like to putt on and historically that is where we play in the summertime. So I am generally good in this part of the country. I mean, I go next week to another major, the TPC, that I won two out of the last four years. So I am just in my element when I get up on greens of this speed and I just feel very comfortable.

DAVE STOCKTON: I was going to say this is first tournament I ever won, I got a medal and trophy and no check.

DAVE STOCKTON: Maybe she did.

DAVE STOCKTON: Oh, yeah.

DAVE STOCKTON: Catherine, he wants you to take a bow. Watch the knees. That a girl.

DAVE STOCKTON: No 78s or 80s this time. Where do we play next year? Where do I defend?

JERRY POTTER: Chicago, that is your kind of town.