U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

June 24, 2003

Lon Hinkle

RAND JERRIS: It's a pleasure to be joined this morning by Lon Hinkle. Lon, congratulations on qualifying for your first Senior Open. It's a pleasure to have you here. Maybe can you start us off by talking a little about your qualifying round and how you ended up here.

LON HINKLE: Well, I live in Big Fork, Montana, which is the far northwest corner, and I got my entry and I looked at the locations to qualify and I had my choices which were Salt Lake City, I think might have been Provo, Portland, Oregon, or Blaine, Washington which I had to look for on the map and also to figure out where Blaine Washington is, it turns out it is five miles from the Canadian border.

So my stepdaughter is going to the University of Washington next year and we combined a practice round with a Trip over to the college and I went up and saw the course, Loomis (ph) Trail, a pretty nice golf course, a sister course, of course, to Sam my and no, that I played maybe six or eight years ago. I call it Florida-style golf.

There was a swamp where they dug out the lakes and used the fill for fairways, tees and greens.

When I got my entry back, saying that I was at Loomis (ph) Trail, I had no idea how many spots there would be. I was just hoping that after making the trip up there for the practice round that they would, indeed have a qualifying. But it turns out they had 49 guys signed up there, and one spot. I wasn't too crazy about the odds. The 2nd hole is a par five doing leg right, right angle with a big water hazard on the right side. And swamp through the fairways.

My first real decision was do I play Lon Hinkle golf and hit it over the lake and hit a 6-iron into the green for a par-5. Or do I hit a 3-iron and a 6-iron and 100 yard sand wedge; "senior golf" is what I call it. So I missed about a 6- or 8-footer on the first hole for a birdie and I made my par.

Got on the second tee and just, you know, I had this -- for two months I was thinking about the 2nd hole and what I was going to do on the 2nd hole. And played senior golf, and hit a 3-iron. I played it well safe for the water. I hit a 5-iron for my second shot and pulled it about 10 yards and was in a bunker.

Now I had 110 yards over the water to a green and I was not happy with myself. I just barely got it on the green, putted it by the hole six feet and now I'm thinking to myself, isn't this just perfect? I got a 6-footer for a par on a hole that I could kick it on with my second shot if I hit a driver. I made the putt. I shot one under the front. As I made the turn I was probably the 6th or eighth group out of 20. And a guy said well there is a 32 in front of you. And I said well that doesn't sound too red hot.

The back nine I made an eagle and a birdie and the rest pars. And as I putted out on 18 the gentlemen I played with, he said, nice error-free round. And I thought to myself, you know, I don't remember the last error-free round that I had, but it was pretty good way to describe it. I hit a lot of fairways. I hit 12 fairways and I hit 16 greens. And my eagle putt was about a foot. And 2 birdies on par-5s. So I got -- I beat the guy that shot 32 on the front and I got a 33 and a couple of 35s and a 34 from the front 9. And I sat there for about two hours and my main purpose for going over there at that point was to get to know some of the pros in the Seattle area.

My daughter, Drew, is headed up there for college. I need to get to know some of those guys a little bit better so I can make a phone call and get on to their courses and play with some of their members. And enjoy golf while I'm over in Seattle. So I sat around for a couple of hours, met a lot of guys, a lot of nice guys, a lot of guys that had friends that I knew and from places that I had been. A couple of J.J. stories. And it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed hanging out.

And one guy came in with a 68, Glen McDonald. And we ended up in a playoff for the spot and we played 10. And of the two fairways that I missed, one of them was 10. So our playoff holes were 10 and 18, a little over 400 yard par-4 holes each. And I never did hit the 10th fairway. But I kept hitting driver. And there was one of those, I could get a driver over most of the trouble. Glen didn't have that option. So I was hitting 110 to 130 yard shots from behind trees and underneath bushes and places and he was back hitting 175, 180 yards 4 irons and five irons. But we made a lot of pars the second.

The second trip around we both bogeyed. He missed about a three-footer which would have put me out. And at that point I thought, you know, I might just get this spot and I did. And I was real excited. It was sure relieved driving down to Seattle to be able to call my wife and tell her that I missed my connection out of Seattle and I was going to spend the night with some friends in Seattle and had a nice barbecue and at least I wasn't the guy saying I almost made it.

So I am here and that's the story of my qualifying. It was a good experience and hopefully I will get something going this week and be a contender.

RAND JERRIS: It seems like fate played a hand in having you come back to Inverness where you are so intimately connected because of a famous tree that was planted just off the eighth tee at the '79 Open. Maybe you can walk us through what happened that week, what your memories are and what it is like to return to and see the Hinkle tree again.

LON HINKLE: Okay. Well, 1979 I think I finished second in LA and I won the Crosby. And I was a real legitimate contender, and I came here thinking, you know, an Open, which historically is not my style of golf course; it's short, tight, tricky. And I got here, but I love Donald Ross golf courses, to walk into that locker room and see all of the history that's in there got me real excited about playing at Inverness and the U.S. Open. I think it was really I was looking forward to it. I wasn't crazy with the new holes. And through the years I have learned quite a bit about how everything happened here. I don't even know remember the holes. I haven't been out there. But I think 3, 4 and 5, or 4, 5 and 6, a par-3, a long par-4 and another par-3 just were pretty new and that didn't , I really felt, fit in with the course. But I was doing okay for the day when I got to the eighth tee.

And I was with, which I am pretty sure Greg Norman was the other player in the group, and we saw the group in front of us and we were waiting for them to clear the fairway and I -- Chi-Chi and I were just standing there chatting, imagine that, and we were talking about man, you know, I didn't realize this was such a right angle dog leg. I always thought it was the player's back heading that way. And I just kind of looked over that way and I thought I saw -- I don't remember for sure, but I remember looking at the 17th fairway going, man, there is a fairway over there. Which I became rather animated at finding a shortcut. And I was just kind of looking over there. "Yes, that is a fairway over there, but where is the green and how far away is it?" I had no clue, and which I which I kept talking about it.

The fairway cleared and, "you're up, Lon," so I looked over at the 17th tee and the group had just arrived at the tee. The fairway was wide open, 17, and there was a big gap. That gap in the big trees and there were big trees and I hit a 1-iron in the 17th fairway. My caddy and I, we couldn't have come -- we just came up with 220. And I hit a 2-iron on the green, 2-putted for birdie, went on to tie for the lead in the Open. And as I was in the press room explaining the details of the round I said the 8th hole that I hit a 1-iron down the 17th fairway, a 2-iron up to green and I two-putted for birdie. I got around to about 11 or 12 before somebody in the back of the room said, "what did you do on No. 8 again?" And I went through the deal, and man, that was -- it was a story for the press at that time. I call it a slow news day. 70 was the low scorer and there wasn't a whole lot. I mean the course won. Nobody broke 70. It wasn't a long hard golf course it was a tiptoe around the golf course and it was the story.

Through the years I came back and did outings with the Dana Corporation, and the gentleman that was the chairman of the club was also one of the main guys here at that time and he told me that -- he told me the whole story about how the USGA had come in years earlier and told him that the golf course wouldn't accept enough spectators for a major championship so they bought 40 acres, put three holes out there and then reconfigured 18 holes into 15 and that the 8th hole was actually a long par-3 and a shorted par-4 that they had turned into a par-5 and opened up the interior for spectators. I can imagine where the USGA wasn't too thrilled about the whole deal.

You know, it's really funny to me that I really enjoyed my days as a contender. And I have some great memories. The defining moment of my career appears to be the tree out on the eighth green at Inverness and that is just the way it is.

RAND JERRIS: Thank you. Some questions out here, please?

Q. After those two long-winded answers, which I liked by the way, I had some questions. The first one is how many holes in the playoff did you play before you got the spot?

LON HINKLE: Seven.

Q. The second question is did you know that they had planted that tree when you got to the second round or did you find out when you got to the tee?

LON HINKLE: Well, I got to the clubhouse Friday morning and I played late Friday. I'm thinking it's late. Maybe it was early -- I really don't remember. I got to the clubhouse about an hour before my starting time and with every intention of changing my shoes and heading out to the range. And I put -- I got an orange juice and I had it sitting on the table and they had a lot of papers in the locker room and I opened up the paper and there is my picture to the sports page, a big picture and it was one of those little things with a light bulb in it. Like. I thought it was kind of cute.

And so I put the paper down and grabbed my orange juice I had about a half dozen guys from the press sitting right here wanting to know what I was going to do about the tree. And I hadn't even seen the part about the tree. I thought it was in reference to finding a shortcut. And I got an education on the tree right then. And as you said, rather long-winded answers, I think all good golfers at heart are part ham and if you are a ham and you are an entertainer, you like the attention and I sat there for fully 30 minutes talking with those guys. "Oops, I'm on the tee." And I hustled out, hit a dozen balls, rushed to the tee. By the time I got to the fourth -- or the eighth tee I was 4 over par and fairly disappointed in myself for letting the tournament get away.

And I looked at that tree and this is this big deal over a transplanted tree which I know a little bit about transplanting trees and tree spades and things like that; it was a difficult feat to get a tree that size planted. But it wasn't the prettiest tree out there. Those trees were big trees. And there was this one kind of brownish tree -- small, thin, that was this big tree that made a big deal about it, and Chi-Chi was up and I know you have seen the deals. He teed it up on a pencil and just popped it up over the tree.

The teeing ground is a rectangle, two club lengths deep. I went back to the far-left corner, teed it up with a driver and after seeing where the fairway went the first day I hit a driver and a 6-iron the second day. But let me also say that I grew up in San Diego and a real nice golf course in those days, Carlton Oaks and the 15th hole is a 450 yard par-4. Very difficult dog leg left with a bunch of trees. And I got to where when I played I would go down this fairway, the hole that we just played and I could hit a driver, an eight or 9-iron and always get something up around the green where if I had to play down the 15th fairway I would sometimes get behind trees, couldn't get it on the green, get in trouble, there is water that way.

But the defining factor for me usually was, is the 14th fairway clear? And for me the last call was is the 17th fairway clear? The fairway was clear when I hit it that way. I would, today, and at no time would I ever hit a shot into a group that's in their fairway on purpose. And that's -- as I read the articles, it was kind of funny, it made our Montana papers and the one thing -- I thought the article was very good, the Associated Press article. But there was one thing it said that really disappointed me and I would certainly like to know what it meant; but it said, you know, after doing this that some people thought I was a maverick and so thought I was a cheater. Who thought I cheated? I would like to -- what that was about? But anyway...

Q. Lon, when you were talking to Rand before the interview started, did I overhear you saying that you had made a drive from one place to another place at one point and stopped in Toledo --

LON HINKLE: Yes.

Q. -- to see the tree more recently?

LON HINKLE: Yes. I was playing -- one of my last year's '93, '94 and I missed the cut in Quad-Cities. There isn't a good way to get from Moline to Binghamton, New York. I just decided to drive, rent a car and drive. Actually, I road with a caddy friend who lived over in that neck of the woods. And we got, I don't know, somewhere en route and he asked me about the tree story and he asked me if I had been back. I said, yes, I had been back. He said, "I never been there, I never seen the tree." He said if we stop -- he wanted to see the tree. And I was riding with him. So it was close enough, we stopped a couple hundred miles down the road.

I got the number of the club, called the pro and the pro said sure, stop by, couldn't have been nicer. He took me out to the course and the tree and my caddy friend, he took a picture and I have fond memories here of those years when I would come back and play with Dana. Inverness has won of the greatest caddy programs in the country. One of the first things that I did was qualified and talked to the pro. The carts haven't put the poor caddies out of business have they? No, we still have a very good program. I have one of the local youngsters this week and I am real happy with that.

Q. You made the comment that for all you accomplished in golf, your legacy, what you might be remembered for is a tree? Do you like that; is that a good thing, a bad thing?

LON HINKLE: I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. I had some -- I was really happy with my career in the late '70's and early '80's. I wasn't as competitive late in the '80's and 90's. But people still associate me with the tree. I hear about it on a regular basis. It's not like I did something wrong. And it's kind of a clever story.

Q. And the last two rounds you did not try to use the 17th fairway; is that correct?

LON HINKLE: To tell you the truth I don't remember. But I know that if there were people in that fairway I wouldn't hold up play until it cleared, and I wouldn't hit it if there were people there.

After I shot myself out of the tournament, the tournament was over; I couldn't tell you. I remember the first two times hitting it through the opening and then the second time after seeing the tree and what it looked like, that wasn't going to stop me. I looked at that tree as though it somehow ruined my Open; it did.

Q. Lon, I recall reading about Tom Purtzer in his final round going that way, how much of the field followed you and obviously you saw that Tom Purtzer payed a good price, he had a double bogey together Bobby on the final round going that way?

LON HINKLE: There were a lot of people out there and one of my photographer buddies, a gentleman, Bill Knight, from St. Louis, he was there and it was funny because '79 I also, at the World Series I skipped a ball across the pond on 16 on Saturday's round one shot back of the lead on national TV. And he was there, too. And so I got two pictures -- actually two series of pictures from Bill. One with the tree and the other with the pond. What did he call me? I'm like an environmental problem or something. I don't know. It was kind of cute though. It took me forever to get those photos from Bill but I finally did. There were a lot of people for the middle of the second round watching somebody that wasn't in contention anymore. The second day on the eighth tee.

Q. Lon, could you define Hinkle golf for us?

LON HINKLE: Hinkle golf? Swing hard in case you hit it. That's one of my lines.

I remember Jack Nicklaus saying one time you teach them how to hit it a long way and they will figure out how to hit it straight and score. That's kind of the way that I learned to play golf at.

At various points in my career I have spent more focus, more energies on keeping it under control. And those were the times where I played my best golf. But I still hit the ball a long way. I still play good golf. It's a little more difficult on the Senior Tour. I would have loved to have had this category of past champions that they have now that started in 2003.

I was really hurt in '99 when the same proposal more or less was out there and the players circulated a petition and pretty soundly had it thrown out which really hurt me and Mark Hayes. Although Mark qualified twice for the TOUR and George Burns, some of the multiple winners. But the Senior Tour figured out that they need some more players that there isn't -- but they need some more fresh blood so to speak that has some name recognition and it's kind of too bad because now these days my best golf is big played in northwest Montana for $5 (inaudible) with my friends. And I really enjoy that. I have a lot of fun doing that. But it's a little -- it's a tough pill to watch and see what these guys are doing and knowing that that's kind of where I should be. So that's kind of the shorted version of Hinkle golf.

Q. You have played in Championship TOUR, Senior Tour events at least according to this since '99, a few and far be between; how is it that you get into those events that can you play?

LON HINKLE: I'm in what is called the past champions category. I turned 50 in '99. I got a sponsor exception to a couple of tournaments right off the bat. There are several things. One, the caliber of golf played by the upper third was much better than I anticipated. I'm not saying I didn't fit in. I'm just saying that it was much better than I anticipated. In those days the whole cart game, it was like a baton passing, a relay race, and if you didn't have a caddy that knew the ins and out of the baton pass you -- I got run into the ground by Miller Barber and Butch Baird the first tournament, the first day. And I was even or 1-under through 14 or 15 and I got run into the ground because I didn't have the pass figured out. I didn't have -- I didn't take the driver and the cart back to the tee, hit the tee shot while my caddy walked up the fairway up to the shot with my bag and the rest of the clubs and then hop in the cart, hustle up to the shot and then be ready to hit. Luckily I was long and by the time I got to my shot it was my turn to hit because the other guys had already hit. They were off and on their way. I call it the baton pass, the cart thing.

But as past champions category I didn't play well enough. I didn't do tell vision. The sponsor exemptions were for players I thought like me. But I didn't do television and I didn't do -- I'm not a member at Augusta, and I am not a member at Pine Valley. All I was a good golfer that played the TOUR for a lot of years and I wanted to play and I didn't get sponsor exemptions, maybe I should have in my letters, where I described my PGA TOUR career with tournaments one, ranking on the money list, and those areas, I should have said -- I should have said the guy with the tree in Toledo. Maybe that would have rung a bell. But for whatever reason I didn't get sponsor exemptions. As a three-time winner, the combined senior PGA TOUR and Senior Tour wins. I'm was behind a hole bunch of guys in the past champions category. And if I was 60, 65, 70, or 75 and I had the opportunity to travel around the country, make money, be treated like a king, play some of best golf courses around I would, I want to keep doing it as long as I could. And I don't begrudge those guys; I just wish I could play, and I am not getting to play. That's the bottom line.

Q. Will you play a full schedule if you have the opportunity?

LON HINKLE: Absolutely. I tried to qualify 20 times. I figure I'm 4 for 20. I tell people when I can go out and guarantee that I can shoot 68 every time on a strange course then I will put out my 2- or $3,000 and hustle to wherever the qualifying site is and get there in advance and play the course and prepare on a course that I will play once and try to get into an event. If I thought I could do that and maybe be successful, at least better than 50 percent of the time I'm not going to travel from Montana. I did the traveling. I played the TOUR in 73, '74, 75 and 76 as a tour rabbit which I always had this -- it was kind of a derogatory term I thought in those days. But the point was that you hop from tournament to tournament trying to qualify on Monday. You can qualify and if you make -- in our day if you made the cut you got to keep playing. If you made the top 25 you got invited back to that tournament the next year. If you finished in the top 60 you were exempt for the year and then if you won the world was at your feet.

And what kind of kills me is Mark Hayes and I both in 1981 when the all-exempt tour came out when they went from 60 exemptions to 125, Mark and I both had 10-year exemptions. He won the TPC and I won the World Series. And Gary McCord and Joe Porter and some of the guys that were on the fringes thought that a 125 tour would be good for golf. I didn't know better. To this day I don't know if it was good idea or not. But I didn't have any definite information, it was a bad idea. If everybody wanted it, fine. And it just kind of kills me that some of the guys from the TOUR that benefited the most from the TOUR going from 60 exempt to 125 are the same guys today that were circulating that petition in '99 insisting that they shouldn't expand the exempt -- the qualifying for the Senior Tour to a group of players turning 50 that had won multiple times to PGA TOUR, but they agreed begrudgingly to kind of open the door about this wide for so guys starting in 2003.

I had got into an area where I really was not wanting to get into here but it as area that I'm have -- I'm almost passionate. I wrote -- a year and a half ago I got political and wrote letters to the 75 letters in November of 2001 when I heard about the proposal to add to groups to the field. A lot of the beneficiaries would be multiple winners. It would be a good thing for the Senior Tour. And it was pretty -- they ended up adding three players to the field not for 2002. It would be 2003. It was a start. And it will be good for guys like Andy Bean. Johnny Miller is not exempt on the Senior Tour, Johnny doesn't want to play. With his career he couldn't -- he would have to get a sponsor exception to play and Andy Bean wasn't going to play. Jerry Pate. None of these guys, Koch, Kratzert, Denny Edwards is playing. None of these guys had enough career money. It's all about money. Unless you made money in the 90's either on the PGA TOUR or the Senior Tour you don't have enough money. I'm playing out of the past champions category whichever year gets thinner and thinner and more and more sparse. I'm a real estate agent in Big Fork, Montana, if anybody is interested in Flat Head Lake frontage we can work a deal.

RAND JERRIS: Lon, thank you very much for your time this morning. Best of luck.

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