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MLB WINTER MEETINGS

December 11, 2018

Craig Counsell

Las Vegas, Nevada

Q. I heard you say something on radio that was interesting to me. You said that after the initial disappointment and sadness of losing, like a week later you felt like angry or mad or something. Explain that?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I mean, I think that explains it. I think you know there's initial -- look, we had a lot of fun in the month of October. And you do like to reflect on that.

But then when there's a little space that you realize how close you were, how difficult it is to get where, how difficult it was to get to that game, how much work it's going to take to get back to that situation.

And so when you're that close, you know, there's always a little bit of you that feels like, man, we've got a lot of work to do to get to that point again. And it is. It's disappointment. It's ultimately what drives you. But it makes you a little bit mad. That's how it made me feel. It really did. I was a little mad.

Probably once the World Series started I was a little bit angry, that's the truth.

Q. How long did that linger?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Just probably the conclusion of baseball, until you got rid of baseball, yeah.

Q. How do you feel about your chances getting back to that; as you said, you know it's hard to get back, but when you look at where you are in the roster and this offseason, how confident are you that you will get back?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I think we have a lot of work to do. I think the fact that we do have a team that we're able to bring back the core group of what was there. And there's going to be newcomers and it's going to be different, but we feel like we'll be in a position to certainly try to make a good run at it. And that's -- we're all excited about it, for sure. I think everybody knows the season finished and we have something left to do.

And that's going to be part of next season, for sure.

Q. How different is the feel, like up in the room, this Winter Meetings, compared to previous ones when you were still actively rebuilding?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I think really for us it turned over -- as far as the Winter Meetings, it turned over -- you always judged how agents and players are treating you as far as the destination.

And so that is definitely -- that changed last year, in my opinion, of what we were able to accomplish last year.

And so it's the same -- we took it a step -- a couple steps further this year. But overall I think it's the same feel from that sense.

Q. What advice would you give this kind of next set of first-year managers with little or no managerial experience of handling that first year on the bench as a manager?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I mean, the most important thing is that I think you have to be yourself. That's the most important thing.

And I guess the second thing is that at times I think managers -- you have to a little bit distance yourself from the emotions that the results give you, if that makes sense.

I think emotions sometimes, it causes biases and that bias can cause bad decisions. To avoid some of that what emotion does to you -- that's not saying be an unemotional person but understand how it affects you.

Q. Is there a way you found to help keep things from speeding up on you, if there were any situations, seeing them for the first time, or the playoffs even, managing them there --
CRAIG COUNSELL: Well, I think that's the fun of it. I think you have to treat that as the fun of it, is that there's things that you haven't seen. That's where preparation makes you feel a whole lot more comfortable.

That's where trust in your coaching staff makes you feel a whole lot more comfortable. So those are things that you control as best you can and then understand that the first time in the dugout, even if you've managed at the Minor League level, first time in a Major League dugout, there's things you haven't seen before and things you haven't completely prepared for.

Q. When you were out of the country when those fires were lapping at the houses of Ryan Braun, Christian Yelich, just how close they were to peril, but [inaudible] came back and heard about it. What did you think about those [inaudible] and what do you think about what they've done since as they've tried to raise money to help those people who lost their homes?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Christian, I feel like, has really kind of continued -- just my admiration probably has grown this winter, I think is how you see how he's kind of taken this upon himself, and Ryan and Mike as well, of taking this on themselves to be leaders.

And so I think anytime you see your players act as leaders -- and this is something completely apart from baseball -- you're really proud of them.

And so they've taken a great leadership and an important tragedy -- and a tragedy in their community. But to see them take this leadership, it does, it makes you proud.

Q. Have you thought about how things change when you are now -- when you become the hunted instead of the hunter, when you have raised expectations, all the things that come with things after you win, win a little bit, at least?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, I don't know -- I think we've been a good baseball team for a while. I don't think -- I don't think things change that much.

I think a game against the Cubs, a game against the Cardinals, a game against the Pirates, you know, it's a challenging game against a really good team.

And wherever you're at, whatever happened the year before, I don't think in game time you think about it too much or you feel like hunt/hunted/hunter, whatever. You get in the action and you've got to beat them. There will be different obstacles for our team this year, different challenges for sure.

But I don't feel like that will be one of them and feeling like we're the hunted.

I think you can try to pass that on us as a writer from Chicago, but it's not changing. (Laughter).

Q. We've seen some nontraditional coaching staff hires in baseball the last two years, analytics driving that, of course, what are your thoughts on that; is it a start of a trend? Are they bringing something that some of the coaches that were in place that have been traditional hires don't have?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I think what every organization is hoping for -- well, we're all -- coaches are communicators. They share information, obviously. But it's about communicating, and it's about either communicating information, information in one sense analytical or information probably past experience or information that I've gotten from my eyes.

It's about communicating that to players. And so Major League coaches should be the people that can best communicate information to players.

And so that's a pretty big umbrella. In the past it's been largely coaches at different levels or former players. But I do think it's right that it should be people that can best communicate the information. And so that's opened it up a little bit. And I think that's the way it should be.

Q. With your coaching changes, especially Derek Johnson leaving, Chris Hook is a guy you know and everybody respects, but is that going to be a big loss for the organization?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Well, we're going to have a different challenge for us, for sure. I think for the pitching program that we had got it, I think we were getting to a point where we felt like we were pretty locked into some really positive things. Now our challenge is to build on them. But at the same time, we're going to have to start over a little bit with Chris. And so the challenge will be just for him to get up to speed as fast as we can.

Now, the positive is that Chris has worked with and has developed a fair number of our pitchers already. So he comes in with a really advanced start from that perspective. And so that's why I feel that we can make a very quick transition and get up to speed quickly. But, look, it's going to be a challenge for Chris. But we think he's really prepared for it.

Q. I think the answer to this is yes, but was Derek -- were you and Derek on the same page with the pitching decisions especially late in the year; that didn't play any role?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, no, yeah, our pitching decisions are always a source of a lot of conversation for a bunch of us.

And nothing's a surprise, nothing's going to be a surprise to Derek during the game, for sure.

Q. You and David have always spoken about being successful by like making good decisions and stacking good decisions on top of each other. Do the margins for those decisions become more difficult now when you guys feel that you're as close to where you want to be or [inaudible]?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I think that's exactly right. I think it's certainly challenging in a different roster construct to come up with ways to -- it's more difficult to come up with ways to make your team better.

And they are, the margins are smaller. And there's a smaller kind of -- you're able you were less players to do it because it's hard to subtract from a Big League team and do moves if you're really trying to make yourself better.

So that is, I think, probably a challenge for any team that's having success. I think most teams that are having success probably find it that way.

But that's the new challenge of an offseason like this.

Q. With that said, though, are you surprised -- there hasn't been an outside move yet, some nonroster guys, but are you a little surprised that there hasn't been an import, a Major League import yet?
CRAIG COUNSELL: No. No. I really am not. I think it has to happen at the appropriate time and deals come together when deals come together. And so I don't think -- you just don't look for a name to make a transaction. Our best deals came together in January of last year.

They could come together in February this year. So there's no timetable put on them. We don't have a game until April, or maybe late March. So we'll have enough players by then.

Q. You usually save this line for Spring Training.
CRAIG COUNSELL: I do, but you're getting a little antsy.

Q. Rebuild quick, everything's advanced.
CRAIG COUNSELL: Lots of stories to write here, there's great stories.

Q. Who is your Opening Day starter?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, we've -- it's almost like you've cursed our Opening Day starter. That's what I feel like we're at because we're on this running joke for three years. And you have cursed the Opening Day starter. We'll name this curse in Spring Training. It will be a central part of our morning interviews, the Adam McCalvy curse will be discussed.

Q. It might be declined, if the pitcher is [inaudible].
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yes, he might, because of the curse, yes.

Q. Because you're a ways away from the 2019 roster, the construction you might not know right now, but what's your thought in terms of the opening in 2019? Do you anticipate going back to it in some form or another?
CRAIG COUNSELL: We didn't use the opener a lot. I mean, again, I've used some different pitching terms. But I think I would use it as like I think of it more as how are we going to get 27 outs in a game.

And so traditionally it's been there's a starter that kind of throws 100 pitches, leave them out for 100 pitches and a series of guys finish the game.

And we've used our personnel to kind of look at it differently. And maybe there's six outs here and maybe there's nine outs here and there's four outs here.

And so that's really kind of the things worth thinking about more. I do think you're gonna need pitchers during the regular season that get you -- the more outs they can get you, the more valuable they are. That's really helpful. 21 outs is a great performance from one pitcher. And we're still looking for that and still want that. And we're still going to need that.

Q. With what the Rays did in the regular season and you postseason, do you think there might be ripples throughout the game, teams realizing we can get guys to do this?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, I think teams will definitely look at different ways to get through games and get 27 outs and to use their personnel in the best way they can.

I think the strategy is different in the National League with the pitcher hitting. And that changes -- I do think that changes the calculus that you have to think about and how you want to structure that. Because once you go through an opener, and you put a starter in a game, if that starter comes up in the fourth or fifth inning and you've got an at-bat that you need in that game, you're already down -- you're going to go through pitchers quickly then. And that will catch up with you.

So there's different costs, I think, associated with that strategy in the National League game.

Q. When it comes to relievers generally in their year-to-year volatility, why do you think that happens and what challenges does that possess, trying to plan a bullpen for a year?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, look, it's a question that we haven't answered, the volatility. I think it's -- you know, there's the sample is not that big. And so sometimes luck can play a little bit of a part of results. It shows up, the luck shows up more for a reliever because there's less innings, doesn't even out as much some years.

I think their health is something that we're trying to do a better job at understanding and what does that mean to performance.

I spend a lot of time thinking about that and I think trying to put guys at their best, I think, is something that's really important in how we use them. And I think it matters. Especially over the course of a long season. But it's certainly a question that we'll continue to think about.

Look, we don't have an answer for it yet. And it's something you're always wary of. And although we had some relievers that pitched quite a number of innings, I think how you get -- you can get to those innings differently. If you get to those innings in a way you feel like it takes care of them pretty well health-wise, hopefully you can avoid that kind of volatility that we have seen in the industry with relievers.

Q. How is the player/manager relationship changed since you first came up as a player?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Not as much as I think everybody wants to say. Players are players, and they have the same dreams, they have the same insecurities, they have the same fears; they're good at the same things as players in my generation. I don't think it changes as much as some of us once say it changed.

All that changes is that we get older and so we don't know how to deal with it getting older. It might be like looking inside, I'm just getting older and I don't know how to handle it as well. So you try to be cautious of that and you try to have some empathy to what players are going through. But it's not perfect. Ultimately it's communication. And but I feel like I wanted -- players want the same thing. And communication is one of them. But I think it was fair for my generation to expect some communication as well, too. And I did.

Q. When you look -- they're talking about banning the shift over the next year or so.
CRAIG COUNSELL: I really -- I don't think that's going to happen. I don't know. I just don't know why that's even an article. I don't think it's going to happen. I think it's not going to happen.

Q. Even though the Commissioner is talking about it?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I don't think it's going to happen.

Q. That would dramatically change the way you play defense?
CRAIG COUNSELL: You can say I was wrong, I just can't see it happening. I'll just say, I don't see the sense in banning the shift at all. I don't see how it improves the game.

I think it's a strategic part of the game that is one of the things that makes our game fun, is let's find strategies to win baseball games. That's why we love the game, because we spend hours -- that's why you guys have jobs, because we talk about strategy all the time.

So if you want to eliminate all the strategies, I don't know, you guys better think about that.

Q. Brush up on our resumÃ©s are you saying?
CRAIG COUNSELL: That's what I'm saying (laughter). The beauty of the game is all the strategies that we can employ and players can employ.

And so I do think we can make a concerted effort on the downtime in the game. I would love for us to try to attack the dead time in games.

But attacking strategies to win baseball games, man, I just don't see that as improving the game.

Q. Have you had an opportunity to share thoughts of managers being given an opportunity with the league? Because they've spoke, the Commissioner has spoken about this as a possibility.
CRAIG COUNSELL: I have not.

Q. Wouldn't you think, though, that it is the easiest way to increase action in scoring, since for most of a hundred years the game is played with two guys on each side [inaudible] won't look that different? Isn't that a way to increase some hitting?
CRAIG COUNSELL: The easiest way to increase hitting -- I'm not suggesting this -- would be to change where the mound is. If you want more action.

Q. The least drastic, the easiest way?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I don't think the impact -- I just think it's a negligible impact.

Q. Following with possibly limiting the number of pitchers you can use in different situations, which also has come up, that definitely creates downtime because of pay, B, commercials?
CRAIG COUNSELL: There could be something there. Maybe just spitballing, I would say the farthest I would consider is the one pitchers facing one hitter. I don't know about limiting overall the number of pitchers, but having to face more than a hitter.

But I think you're on the right track of attacking the dead time is where I would focus the efforts into improving the game.

Q. When you look at what you have right now at catcher, in bringing those guys back, if you had to like stack your priorities of what you want from your catchers, what is your philosophy? What do you prioritize from your catchers?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I think players kind of achieve -- different players are good at different things and there's different ways to bring value.

And you can't always get perfect of what you always want. So I think different guys bring different things. And I think you want players because, hey, this player's good at this and this player's really good at this. So I think that's what we feel like we have, and we got two guys that I think are very sound defensively.

I think obviously offensively it's a position that they hit as much as Christian Yelich hits, so offensively they have an important job as well.

So you need some offense from that position as well. So they have a large job, and there's many ways to be good at it, but I don't think -- I don't rank them as priorities. I rank are you contributing, how much are you contributing in this way, and is that value kind of better than we can get anywhere else.

Q. Considering how much you depended on your bullpen last season, and the fact is you've got like three extra weeks of season, are you going to be different with them next spring? I know some managers have backed off guys. Will you have, like, different schedules for them next spring?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, it's something we've talked about already. And you are bound by the schedule a little bit as far as how much you can back off. But I think it's just going to be really important for us to be kind of cautious at the start, I think, and make sure we know exactly where the guys are as they come in to spring.

I think what we've emphasized is don't change your normal rest time. Take your rest time and then start your throwing, and if you come in a week behind, we still feel like there's time to make it up.

So Spring Training does let us go at kind of our own pace, and specifically for guys that don't need to be stretched out, there is plenty of time. So the guys that we're going to stretch out, they'll get going and we'll have to do that.

Q. The value that J.D. Martinez brought to the Red Sox this year, it wasn't just all in performance. Some was nonquantifiable in that he was like a hitting coach and how much he influenced some of the guys in the lineup with his approach and the way he talked with them. How important is it to have a guy like that, and do you have guys like that on your team?
CRAIG COUNSELL: Yeah, players -- I think J.D., rightfully so, got credit for doing that. I think players have always done that. And it's an important part of -- it's an important part of being a teammate. It's an important part of, as a team, being connected and sharing -- a player's eyes are on each other more than -- probably more than coaches. Their eyes are on each other's play. And they have a way to help each other, just as much as coaches do.

For sure. So you want to foster that environment for sure, where the players are talking to each other, helping each other, and I think it happens -- it's always happened and always will happen, but foster the environment where it's really making an impact is probably the next step. And something all teams should try to do.

Q. Do you have guys who stand out in that way?
CRAIG COUNSELL: I think players stand out -- everybody stands out in different ways in how they teach. So I've always -- for Ryan Braun, his preparation, the consistency of his preparation has always to me been a great teacher for players for our players.

And something that you see guys, young players kind of pick up on as it's so consistent. It almost feels maniacal at times, but the preparation becomes so consistent that routines allow you to -- routines allow you to come home at night after the performance and say I stuck to my plan.

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