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THE 147TH OPEN

July 18, 2018

Gary Player

Angus, Scotland, United Kingdom

MIKE WOODCOCK: Good morning, everyone. Pleased to welcome Gary player to the interview room.

Gary, I'd like to start by asking you, when you won here all these years ago, 50 years ago in 1968, that you ever imagined that you'd be sitting here 50 years hence in the interview room discussing the triumph and a remarkable career.

GARY PLAYER: I certainly did. Being close to 83, you're lucky to be alive. All my golfing friends are dead now. I've got to find new four balls to play with. No, I certainly didn't think I'd be back here. I was optimistic, but I really didn't think I'd be back here to see the greatest tournament in the world being played again, and it certainly brings back wonderful memories.

As you know, I think The Open is by far the greatest championship in the world. It's the only tournament where yardage doesn't really mean anything. It's insignificant. With other tournaments, you can say it's 160 yards. Even Ray Charles could say, well, give me an 8 iron because that's the yardage. But here you can hit a drive and a wedge to the 1st hole today. Tomorrow it could be a driver and a 3 iron, which happens regularly in most Opens. I don't know about this week. And also, ball goes in the bunker, and you have to play it backwards. Nowhere else does it happen.

Where the weather conditions mean so much, you know, you play in most golf majors, the weather is pretty consistent for everybody, whereas here, as we saw Tiger Woods at Muirfield in his prime -- what did he shoot? Does anybody know? 83 or 85, that one round when he was doing so well, he got the bad part of the draw, which we've seen happen -- I played in 46 straight Opens. So I've seen it happen a lot of times.

So this championship is a test of more patience, of never feeling sorry for yourself, of courage, almost teaching yourself to enjoy adversity because you're going to be inundated with it in this tournament. It doesn't matter who you are. And also coming back here in memory of -- and memorialising Ben Hogan, which I never saw a man swing a club like Ben Hogan, nowhere close. He was the best striker of the ball that ever lived, bar none. No question. I've played with them all and I've never seen anybody like it, with an inferior golf club and an inferior golf ball. What would have happened if he played under today's conditions with these clubs. Heaven knows what would have happened.

To reminisce a little bit and go back to 1953, where he hit a drive, four times on No. 6 between the bunker and out of bounds. There's nobody, I think, that could do that four times. Sam Snead got a little irritated with that because they said to Sam, who was a great opposition to him, said, can you believe that Hogan hit his drive in the same place every single day? In fact, hit his drive in the divot that he was in yesterday. Sam said, "If he's that damn good, why didn't he hit it to the right or the left of it?"

So he was really an incredible golf swinger. I saw it on the TV the other day. If I was a young man, I'd get that tape of him swinging because he was on the perfect plane. He had the perfect move. He had the perfect balance. He had every ingredient. Rather than going and having lessons from a lot people, how much do they know about being in the arena is limited, for them to just look at that and learn from that, they could learn so much.

Obviously, I have many great memories of this championship, and my first Open is a special memory to me because my wife had just had a baby, and unlike today the guys with their jets and all the money they have, I couldn't fly home to be with my wife when she had our first child. I saw her when she was three months old. We went up to Muirfield, I thought, I've got to win this to make some money. I arrived at the clubhouse at Muirfield. I didn't know it was as sticky as Augusta.

I walked in and said, "Good morning, sir", to the secretary. His name was Colonel Evans-Lombe. He said, "What do you want here?" It was quite a shock. I said, "Well, I've come to practise." He said, "You're not practising here, boy." I thought very quickly. I said, "Look, I don't have much. My wife is coming with our baby. I need the money, and I'm going to win the tournament."

He said, "Not only are you not welcome here, you're an insolent little bastard." So I was put back, to say the least, and humbled, but I befriended him, and he was fantastic.

And he was instrumental in me winning because I was hitting a driver and a wedge to No. 15 every day, and he came out to me one day and said, "One day if the wind changes, you could be hitting a 3 iron." Those days in the U.S. Open and The Open, we had to play 36 holes the final day. And not to digress, but if you're tired, you had a 36-hole playoff the next day. Anyway, I hit off with a 6 iron for the next few days off the tee and hit a 3 iron to the green. And the final round when the wind blew hard, I had a 3 iron in the morning and birdied it, 2 iron in the afternoon and birdied it. I went to thank him, and he stood there at the prize, with his hands like this as though he'd won it. But he was instrumental.

But it was quite an experience from my first Open, being the youngest man to win The Open at age 23.

So I've had wonderful experiences here. This is my 63rd in a row visit, and as long as I'm healthy -- and we can never take that for granted -- but I'll always come back here, this and Augusta.

MIKE WOODCOCK: Well, we're always honoured to have you back here, Gary. It's amazing to hear your memories and recollections, such vivid memories of those events. We'll now take questions from the floor.

Q. Hi, Gary. Do you have a pick for this week's Open? And is Tiger a realistic contender in your mind?
GARY PLAYER: It's very interesting. Last week I went to Wimbledon, and I went for three days. Of course, I'm a great tennis fan. And I learned some very interesting things there. They said, whether these are true or not, I don't know, but in the last 16 Wimbledons, there have been four players that have won. So actually, if you think about it, you can go to Wimbledon and bet your house that one of seven guys would win.

This week, I don't know. I think anybody is in the field this week. The way the golf course is set at the moment, as the conditions are, anybody who plays in this tournament could win. As we've seen some big shocks in the last few years, people you've never heard of winning and coming out. Well, it's going to be no different here if the conditions remain as such.

It's impossible. If Tiger was at his best, you'd unanimously say, we did a little survey at the luncheon I've just been to, and seven people gave seven different answers. Whereas when Tiger was at his best, it would be unanimous that Tiger would win.

So it's impossible, but if you get a feeling about somebody winning, my feeling is Rickie Fowler. I think he's been very close at majors. I think he's played so well last week. He's in a good frame of mind. He's a marvelous putter. He hits the ball pretty straight, although they tell me -- I haven't been around since I came here two weeks ago -- they said the rough isn't very severe. Hitting a lot with irons. Ernie Els hit with the ball with a driver, runs 60 yards when it hits the ground -- all things I was not familiar with.

But I don't know, anybody could win. If we saw Trevor Immelman last week, who hasn't had a decent tournament in years and years, finish third. And then Brandon Stone, who was lying 371st in the World Rankings -- or the rankings, wins the tournament and almost shoots 59. So these young guys today with the equipment, it hasn't separated the fields like when we played. And Jack and I were discussing that, and it was very much so. Whereas now you can hit the ball on the toe, the heel, and the middle and get away with it, and not to elaborate on it, but it's very different times.

Tiger Woods, my big wish would be that he would win because Tiger Woods is responsible for these guys playing for a million every week, and to a large degree, I don't think you can not go back in history and see the different eras, what they've all contributed to this wonderful sport. But I think Tiger is what's captured the young people, which we need in this game desperately at the moment. If he can bring this, it enhances the game and brings more young people into the game. He brings more people, the sponsors are delighted, the public are delighted, you media are delighted because you are still in awe of him, you still write all these articles in awe of him, which he deserved, 14 majors.

So he is swinging -- I never understand it. It was always a mystery to me when he was on his way to being the best player that ever lived -- I don't think that will be achieved now. I am talking about Tiger Woods, so he might prove me wrong. I think Tiger Woods will win another tournament, and I hope he will win another major because we desperately need him to do that for the sake of the game. And I sincerely hope he plays well.

But what I never understood is, when you win the U.S. Open by 15 shots, ladies and gentlemen, not talking about 5 shots. We're talking about 15 shots. And within the next two weeks, he's having a lesson, I never understood that. And from there onwards, he was never the same force. Then he went to another coach, and he got confused, as he himself said, "I got confused." If he never did that -- and there's always an if. I always tell young players when they come for any advice, don't ever make excuses, don't ever feel sorry for yourself, and don't ever use the word "if" because it's irrelevant.

But that was one of the sad things I saw in golf because this man was doing things and getting people excited, and it came to a sudden jolt. And he was swinging -- after he had the lessons, he was swinging so poorly, and he had so many faults. And Jack and I sat there and said, "Look at this. Can you imagine this man swinging with the faults he's got." But now -- and I don't know what he's doing now -- he's swinging the club so well. He's back on the right plane. He's making the right movements. I don't know how his career has affected him mentally, how it's hurt him. Nobody knows that. But he certainly has a chance, and I think a pretty good chance.

He's not been a great driver of the ball, so he'll be using irons off the tees, which are to his advantage, and he's had the experience. So, yes, he could win.

Q. Mr. Player, what do you think of the South African chances this week? And also the fact that there are 12 South Africans in the field?
GARY PLAYER: Well, I'm delighted to see 12 South Africans in the field. I think it's wonderful. We have such great weather in South Africa and so many great golf courses, that it lends itself to producing great golfers, which we've done throughout history.

I can't say -- any one of them could excel and do very well, as we saw Brandon last week. If Brandon repeats that performance, he could win. He's an extremely talented young man. I've always been -- I kept at the Olympic Games, men and women, and Brandon was in my team. I walked around in awe with his talent, and we've always been amazed why he's not excelling.

Golf is more than hitting a golf ball. I get tired of people talking about long hitting. That's all people talk about is long hitting. The thing that wins golf tournaments is from 100 yards in and the mind. The mind is something we haven't scratched the surface of, even yet. And we are in our infancy with golf. We haven't seen anything like what's coming. The ball is going to be -- and I mentioned this on BBC television with a man who's at this tournament now, probably 20 years ago, I said players will all be hitting the ball 400 yards, and he scoffed at me. And we've seen many drives in the last month or two, they both have been nearly 500 yards.

So we'll be seeing guys coming out at universities and in countries today that there's a million dollar first prize or pounds, that they have no money in their family. They're going to gym. They're not going to play these other contact sports to the degree they were before, because when you're 30 years, you're finished, whereas in golf, you can still go on and win for a long time. I won a tournament in America at 63, which is unheard of in other sports.

So we're in for some very pleasant surprises, and that's why I've been adamant, as Jack and I think Tom and a host of players that you're going to have to cut the ball, and it will happen. The ball will be cut back X amount for professionals. Not for amateurs. It's only a matter of time they'll get on -- they're already hitting a wedge to the par 5 13 at Augusta. Most of you have been there. I played with Trevor Immelman, who's just a normal hitter, the day before Augusta he hit a 7 iron to the 2nd hole, hit a 7 iron to 13, and an 8 iron or something to 15. I don't know where we're going.

They'll drive nine holes probably -- don't hold me to the exact figure, but they'll drive nine holes at St. Andrews in time to come. There are players now that can stand on the 1st tee and drive over the 1st green at St. Andrews. So where are we going unless we cut the ball back? I don't know. It depends on your philosophy. Some people might like that. I think it would be terrible to see that.

But I can't answer you how South Africans will do. They stand an equal chance. Depends what sort of frame of mind they're in, and anything can happen. Obviously, we want to see them excel. And what I am very proud of is that a South African won the British Amateur. We must never underestimate the British Amateur. It's one of the toughest tournaments in the world to win, and not only that, but we had a South African who led the qualifiers. I think those are two of the most significant things I've seen in South African golf this year. Two of, not the only two, but it's very encouraging. We've got some wonderful players coming along.

Q. Hello, Mr. Player. I come from Spain.
GARY PLAYER: Â¿CÃ³mo estÃ¡?

Q. Muy bien. 30 years since Seve Ballesteros won The Open here. What memories do you have of Seve? And do you think any Spanish player can win in the near future?
GARY PLAYER: Yes, I had dinner with Sergio last night. Spain has been very similar to South Africa - has produced so many wonderful players. Ballesteros was like my brother. He was always very complimentary about me because he admired the fact that I could go around the world and win more tournaments around the world than other players could. He kept trying to put that across how difficult it was to do that.

And he also -- when I won the Masters, he played with me that day, and he came across the green, which many -- you don't see too often, and he put his arms around me, and he said, "Oh, Gary, compadre, I'm so happy you win. You teach me to win Masters today." And that was the happy side of things.

But the sad side of things, the conclusion was that the day I was leaving after the Masters one year, he was driving out, and I went (whistle), and he heard me, and he stopped. And I went over, and I said, "How are you?" He says, "Gary, you're always so happy? Why are you always so happy?" Well, I went and elaborated a little bit, and he said, "Me no happy," and a tear rolled down his eye. A terrible memory, and he drove out of there. It was very, very sad. And then we know what happened to him, which was a tragedy because this man, he was the Arnold Palmer of Europe. Incredible, incredible man. A leader in the Ryder Cup. I could on and on and on, and it was just very sad what happened to him in his life.

Q. Mr. Player, you're a three-time Champion Golfer of the Year. Do you have one particular memory from The Open that really stays with you?
GARY PLAYER: In 1968 we were playing the 14th hole here and there were five of us within one shot. I was playing with Jack Nicklaus, one ahead of him, Maurice Bembridge, Bob Charles, and Billy Casper and myself. The wind was into our face, and I hit a drive up the right-hand side. The other day I did an outing here, and I got in my cart after the outing, and I went there and kissed the ground and said a prayer of thanks because those kind of things don't happen in your life, only one time.

And I stood exactly where I hit the ball from, and the wind was a little bit into my face, and I had 242 yards to go. Were we using the big ball then? Yes. I was the first player to win an Open with the big ball, and that was at Lytham, yes. So we were using the small ball then, I think. I had 242 yards to go, and I hit the ball that far from the hole, that far.

Now, at that stage, it's -- I'm not that good. That's a miracle, particularly when you've got all that stuff. You've only got to look over the spectacles and see other bunkers and heather, you've got to put the ball in, at that time, in a 10-foot or 3-yard fairway, which was a path. I don't know how it's changed since then. And to then be two shots ahead.

And then I came to the last hole two shots ahead of Nicklaus, and that's why I felt so sad for van de Velde because I took an iron off the tee, an iron for my second and said, if I get a 5, I am playing for a 5. If Nicklaus gets an eagle and ties me, so be it. But van de Velde should have -- again, it's that "if" factor again. He should have hit off with a 5 iron, a 6 iron, and a wedge and won by two.

I must say, last night at the media evening, which is a very prevalent, important event for me to attend every year because I explained to the media that -- and I had to do it very briefly, I was instructed, if it wasn't for you guys and women in this room, we wouldn't be playing for the kind of prize money we're playing for, and young athletes don't recognize this. The number of athletes that refuse to do interviews -- and I'm sure many of you have had that experience, or we'll give you three minutes -- don't know what they're doing because you guys are promoting the tournaments. You're bringing out the crowds. You're informing the public. You're making the sponsors happy because the sponsors aren't going to put up that money unless they get promoted.

And everything is promotion in this life, whether you promote yourself as an athlete, whether you're a Callaway, a businessman, whatever you are. When you're doing articles, you're promoting your name and for your newspaper. So it's a very special thank you I said last night in a very brief way.

Did I answer your question to the full? Are you satisfied with the answer? (Laughter).

That was very hard for me last night to stand up and say ten words.

Q. Hi, Gary. I wanted to take you away from The Open for a few seconds if I could. You mentioned Jack a couple times. I know how often you speak with him. You're a member of his captains club at Muirfield Village, and I'm wondering at this stage in your life and career, what it means to have that kind of involvement with the game with something like that, where you're making decisions and honouring people and still having kind of a big contribution to golf.
GARY PLAYER: Thank you for those kind words. Let me digress to a certain bit because I can't help thinking this. You know, I'm so blessed, wherever I go in the world, I really don't know there's a man on this planet that gets more love than I do. I go into China, India, Europe, Africa -- black, white, Muslim, Christian, Jews -- and these people come up and hug me. Every day, I get quite tearful, come up, and "My father knew you." I say, "Is he alive?" They say "Yes." I say, "Get him on the phone. I want to talk to him." The love that I'm given, and I'm hoping I can contribute to this game now that I'm not a champion anymore. I can still play very well, and I enjoy it, and I play in a few tournaments, and I can still beat my age by ten shots. I was criticized that I was boasting this morning in one of the newspapers, but I'm proud of that. I'm proud of the fact that I promote fitness. I'm proud of the fact that I can play well because I want young people to see what you can do if you look after your body and stay healthy and have a good education.

So, yes, it is an honour for me to go to these places and to attend dinners and to try to do the things, and to raise a lot of money for underprivileged people because I had nothing as a kid. I suffered like a junkyard dog and lay in bed every night of my life -- well, for several years I was wishing that I was dead, and that's the reason that I became a champion. So I knew what adversity was, and it was the greatest gift bestowed upon me.

So if I can help people and help them to play better and I can just contribute to society, it makes me happy. I don't believe in legacies. Probably the greatest leader that ever lived is Sir Winston Churchill. You can go to America and go to schools today or go into other countries that don't know who he is. If it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be sitting here today, folks. So I don't know if they're going to remember who Gary Player was, who Arnold Palmer, who Jack Nicklaus was? Life goes by. What you're going to do is do your share when you're here, and make room for others to fulfil and continue what you did.

Q. Because of the weather we've had recently, I think the course is in a very different condition to what many of the players would have seen before. Because of that, do you think this is another one of those years where one of the really experienced guys will come to the fore, just because they've played so much links golf in their careers?
GARY PLAYER: Very difficult to predict in golf. It's a game where great shots end up in disaster. It's a game where a child can play it well and a grown man can never master it. It's an attitude game.

I found in my career I saw a lot of players -- one particular player, he was better than Nicklaus, but everything was 90 percent what happens to me and 10 percent how I reacted. Whereas Nicklaus was 10 percent what happens to me and 90 percent how I reacted. So I don't know people's minds, their mindset, how much they believe in themselves. Impossible question to answer that. All I know is that under these conditions, as they are today, and with the equipment, that anybody can win, which we've seen lately.

I mean, we saw Kim -- is it Kim who won last week?

MIKE WOODCOCK: Yes.

GARY PLAYER: He missed five cuts in a row. Five cuts in a row, and then he annihilates the field. It's such an unpredictable game. Molinari played and won the tournament by eight shots a little before that and played as good of golf as I've ever seen. You just don't know what's going to happen. There's just so many guys.

And I think that guys today go in there more -- no, I'll stop there. I can't answer it better than that really. I wish I could. Sorry.

What about a lady asking a question? Why all the men?

Q. Listen, I was privileged to be with you and Jack, and the discussion was about Arnold Palmer, and you said in front of Jack, "The difference between Jack and Arnie, Arnie loved to play golf." And Jack almost interrupted you and said, "I love to play golf." And you said to him, "Not like Arnold Palmer." Was that something that was completely different about Arnie, how much he loved to play?
GARY PLAYER: Yeah, when you talk about Arnold and Jack, Arnold Palmer loved golf more than anybody I ever saw, he and Sam Snead. Even when he couldn't play at the end, he was still out at the club wanting to play. Jack Nicklaus is not like that. Jack Nicklaus -- put it this way, Arnold Palmer worshipped golf, Jack Nicklaus loved golf.

To Jack Nicklaus, he was the greatest gentleman I ever played with in my career. I played Jack in the final of the World Match Play Championship at Wentworth, and strange enough on both occasions, we were practising on the practise green. I don't know if he remembers this. He put out a little thing, he said, "You know, you should be doing this." I played him in the final and beat him 6 and 4 and 5 and 4. He actually, playing against him would remark something like that. I don't know of any other golfer in the world that would have done that. When you beat him, he looked you in the eye and said, "Well done." Of course, you'd know he'll get you next week.

So it's been a wonderful experience being with them and traveling the world at really no money. We didn't play for any money at all really. Great experience. What I love is that we went round the world promoting golf into the craziest little corners of the world because we really loved it.

At the same time, I remember Peter Thomson, who I thought was a highly intelligent, well-read man, who was a brilliant golfer. He didn't play very well in America, to speak. But he was a brilliant golfer. One of the best links players that ever lived, five Open champions. And he said something to me, which is coming back. This was close to 60 years ago. He said, "Appearance money will harm the game," and he couldn't say to what extent. He says, "I can't look into the future that far, but it will harm the game." What I'm seeing happen now is quite a serious thing. We had the biggest money tournament in the world in South Africa, the Nedbank Classic. We had Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Lee Trevino, Tom Watson, everybody. And we did it in rands, which is almost 14 to 1 dollar. Now you want a top player to come from America, he's never won a major championship, never really excelled, he wants $500,000.

So we wanted a man to play in our charity event at Wentworth one year, they were playing up at Troon, he wanted $500,000 for the one day. So, yes, we pay everybody. When I went somewhere overseas, I was paid, but within reason. I mean, one player got more money appearance to play in the Australian Open than the total purse. How do you think those Australians feel? So we've got to be very careful that we don't kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Yes, pay them. But the managers have got to be realistic and also realise that every golfer playing has a debt, has a debt to society.

We all have a debt - to you people, we have a debt to the public, and we have a debt to the sponsors. And we want the world to see the top players. Tiger Woods was paid millions of dollars. Yes, he deserved it because he was in a league of his own. And he went there, he brought the people in. But when you see an ordinary player who's never won a major asking for $500,000 or more, it's a very sad day.

Anybody disagree with that?

Q. Would Mark McCormack have asked for a million dollars?
GARY PLAYER: No. Strangely enough, we were talking about that, and Mark McCormack, who really -- how do you ever evaluate what he did for this game? There wasn't a manager in sports, in all sports, really of substance, of substance, and McCormack came along and changed that. Of course, he was very lucky the first guy he signed up was Arnold, then me, then Jack. And then he signed the Pope. I mean, what he went on to sign was quite remarkable.

But he always said, "Yes, we will ask for appearance money but not be greedy, so that we can come back." He definitely had a different philosophy. And the managers of today can go on their hands and knees and say thank you to a man like McCormack because he changed the entire spectrum, entirely so.

Q. Big Three golf?
GARY PLAYER: Well, he put on Big Three golf, and he had us going round the world at $15,000 kind of thing. He guided us right, correctly. You want to go to those dinners.

I was at a dinner five years ago, and the sponsor said to me, "We've got 52 guests here, we'd like you to sign 52 books." I said, "I'll sign 152 if you want." He said, "We want you to speak." I said, "How long?" He said, "We want you at the main table." "Yes, sir." One of the athletes came in, straight after me, he wouldn't sign the books. He would sit at the main table and wouldn't speak. So they came to me and said speak to this man. I said, "Are you crazy? I'm not paying him. If I was paying him, I'd speak to him." I said, "You're weak. You're accepting this. You're condoning this. This is not my job."

So now they go and say to a young athlete, we'll go to the cocktail party, but he'll be there 15 minutes and sign 25 autographs. You know that. You're aware of that. I don't know. I just -- I'm vehemently against it.

Q. So would Arnold.
GARY PLAYER: So would Arnold be, yes. Arnold was so patient with people. He taught golf a lot. You watch some of these players in sports, watch them sign their name, psst, psst, psst. Look at a flag, you can't read the names. Arnold Palmer took his time, answered every question, signed every autograph.

Q. Mr. Player --
GARY PLAYER: At last a woman.

Q. Yes. Mr. Player, who do you qualify by successful player? Do you base this opinion in knowledge or success as a result?
GARY PLAYER: If you run a business of any kind, you judge it by the bottom line. If you have a good marriage, which I'm happy to say, telling you as a lady, I've been married 61 years, you judge that by how much you tell your wife you love her every day. There's always a bottom line in every business.

So when you judge players -- and I have a very different way of judging players. It's just my personal view, not to say I'm right, I go by the bottom line what people did, what's on paper. Not how charismatic they were, not how far they hit the ball, not how good a putter they were, what they won. Winning, what they won. You put that on paper.

And I've always said, you know, I've set the bar high, to be a superstar -- there are categories. Superstar, star. There's not a lot of difference between a superstar and a star. Superstar, star, very good, and good. And I've always said, to be a superstar, in my opinion, because you've got to set the bar high - six majors. That's why a man like Nick Faldo in this country, he won six majors, he's a superstar. He didn't continue to play golf a very long time after that; the same as Ballesteros, had a very, very short career.

So I think longevity is an important thing when judging a great player. Nicklaus had a long career. Palmer had a very short career. Sam Snead had an extremely long career. Ben Hogan couldn't do it because he had this terrible accident in golf. And Ben Hogan -- and I'll end up on this, which is sad, he came over here one time and won The Open. He won all three in the same year, but he couldn't get back to America in time to prepare, and he was also in pain. He changed his accommodation here to go to National Cash Register because they had a bathroom and they didn't have a bathroom in his room here, and he had to lie and soak every night after his round because of his accident, and he could not get back to America in time whereas this week a Tiger Woods or any of these players that are here with their own planes, they will finish here on Sunday night, and they'll be in their house in Florida at 11:00 that night. So it was very different times.

And I know, sure as the sun that comes up, that if Hogan had gone back for the PGA, the mind he had and the way he was playing, he would have won the Grand Slam in one year, which nobody has ever done. So I go by my own system. As I say, not to say I'm right, but to be a superstar you've got to make -- you've got to give it some. You've got to raise the bar. The people, they win one major championship, great player, superstar, you hear this all the time. I don't say anything. But superstars separate the field by what you win, what's on the paper. Nobody can ever deny that.

MIKE WOODCOCK: Gary, that's a great note to finish on. Thank you very much for joining us and taking the time.

GARY PLAYER: Thank you for having me.

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