U.S. WOMEN'S OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

July 12, 1995

Patty Berg

Jerilyn Britz

Louise Suggs

PATTY BERG: I played here in 1938. We played in the Women's Western Open, I think at that time. I don't know which course -- I think we had 18 then and that is it. But now, I think they have what, 54 or more? It is a beautiful golf course. All of them are the greatest of golf. I have been back here many times for clinics and exhibitions so it has been wonderful to be here.

JERILYN BRITZ: This is my first trip. I have driven up-and-down the highway several times because I did my graduate work in Albuquerque. I heard a lot about it through the years different people have talked about it. I was always hoping I could get here. I am going to go after the interview and walk a few holes.

LOUISE SUGGS: No, never played here before. Played Denver and north of here, but never in here.

LOUISE SUGGS: I know how the altitude has affected me and so I am afraid I am a little bit too old for some of these kids, but...

PATTY BERG: I played a couple of exhibitions and also I played at the Air Force Academy when it first started, and that is a tough golf course, but a beautiful one, so -- and I played several places in Colorado, Denver, Red Bone (Phonetic) and so forth.

LOUISE SUGGS: Well, when we started, we didn't have the kind of golf courses to play on that you all have here. This is a magnificent golf course. There were times that we played courses that we actually had to get a piece of farmer machinery and outline the fairways because you usually roll the ball over and there was no way to tell the difference which was supposedly the fairway and supposedly the rough. It has come a long way. The fairways were not watered as a rule. The greens and tees were. There are certain courses that we played down and had to manufacture shots. You just wouldn't believe that to be possible and we all just, -- well, it is different to say the least.

JERILYN BRITZ: I am kind of in the gap. When I first came out it was right when they were beginning to get some really fine golf courses to play and we still had the golf courses that were a little bit rough. We had the USGA was still playing the courses extremely long and the roughs extremely deep and right about when I started in the early '70s, they started to be a little bit more reasonable because our women haven't got the strength to hit that kind of rough. They started making the golf course a little bit more reasonable length so that this course, started to come down a little bit, made it a little bit more enjoyable to play the USGA tournaments. But scoring averages since I have been on the Tour now, 22 years, really have come down. The golfers are more interested in their golf games than in partying. When I first came out it, it was let us get off the golf course, let us go play quick, quick, quick, we got to go party tonight and now it is like, they got to go practice; spend four, five hours out there. Then I will putt a little bit and chip and see you for dinner at about 9 o'clock, so the attitudes of the players are considerably different since I began 'til now. I don't know what they are feeding these kids because they are big and strong and they have done weight training programs. They have got good coaching. There is a lot of changes.

LOUISE SUGGS: I think they spike the pabulum.

PATTY BERG: There has been a tremendous change. You asked about the changes. No. 1 is junior golf. Now, when I started and Louise started, we did not have junior golf and I think that the junior golf is very important. It is just like little league baseball is to little league and what college football is to football. I think this is very, very important. This is where we developed the interest. You go from here to junior golf into high school golf and then into college golf and then a majority of them, of course, go on the Tour. That is one of the biggest changes, plus, I think, just like anything else, progress is our most important product and equipment has changed tremendously. We had -- When I first started to play golf, we almost -- also used the same shafts. Today you have a shaft for everybody. And also the irons and lofts. I am short and I was using some of the same irons as somebody that is tall. So these changes come, of course, from research and development in all the golf companies throughout the country and the world. The teaching has improved tremendously because they have video and they can stop it and continue to play. I think magazine articles and newspaper articles and the tremendous interest in playing the game correctly because they know when they play this game. Now, they can play it forever. It is one sport that has no age limits and it is a family game and I think that is very, very important. What I think the big change has been, of course, is in the equipment. Equipment and the teaching and also the outfits that they are wearing today are much easier to play in, and then of course getting back to the home front, the family game. And I think that is important.

LOUISE SUGGS: I fortunately had never encountered it. I won my first tournament in the State in Georgia in 1940 and Capital City in Atlanta gave me an honorary membership. I played well enough to where I played with the men and so when they had a tee time, I teed off with them. It never occurred to me -- there was one other girl at the club, Dorothy Curby, she was the national amateur champion later on. In Florida, I joined a club. I have been a charity member of two or three different clubs. I think I have helped those clubs get out of the area of being -- what is the word -- the discrimination and stuff. I have never been discriminated against on the golf course. .

JERILYN BRITZ: Well, I learned to play in a nine-hole golf course in Minnesota, southwest corner of the state. It is a friendly small-town setting, so I never was exposed to any of that sort of thing and then went right from there to Tour basically. Of course, we haven't really had much trouble. Any of the discrimination has been what I read about or heard about. It is too bad that there is that discrimination. I think it is an unnecessary thing, but I also, you know, there are men's clubs and I think that is okay. If men want to have their own golf club and not have women play there, that is fine, but if it is not that type of club and it is just a country club, I think discrimination should definitely not be allowed. Women have a reputation of taking longer to play and everything, but from what I have seen women play, they may hit it short, but they hit it straight and they go down and they hit, hit again, and they hit it again, and they hit it again, and again, and they are not out there in the woods looking for the golf ball like a lot of fellows who hit it sideways. So as far as amount of time it takes, I don't think it takes any longer for them to play. I get a little unhappy when I hear about discrimination.

LOUISE SUGGS: Pine Tree club in Delray Beach, Florida, Dick Wilson built that club as his own baby, so to speak, and he tried -- he came to me one day and said, Louise, why can't I get anymore members. I said, well, frankly, you have no lady tees out here and if the wife says to the husband, you can't join, he is not going to join and he says, well, let us go. We went out and I let him think it was his idea, but I suggested a couple of places to put a few tees, and he did and pretty soon the membership was filled and it is a great golf course to play now. But it was tough in it is too hard for women. It never occurred to me at that point because I was at the top of my game, it didn't bother me; it does now. I play the front tees. Connors was a member there. She plays back tees. Lauri Merten is a member there, she plays regular tees. So far they haven't taken my money.

PATTY BERG: I have to agree with Louise that I have always enjoyed playing golf. First in the State of Minnesota and then moving to Florida. Everybody has been very kind and wonderful and I have never run into some of the things you might hear today. I think that it has been very nice and I have played with a lot of the women members. We have a big women's membership, Cypress Country Club in Fort Meyers and we have a lot of very, very fine players, and I have never seen any discrimination at all for me at all. I have had, like Louise has had too and Jeri, had open arms treatment come and play and we will be happy to have you. Now just my club too in Cypress Lake is a Wilson design, it is beautiful and our tees -- we are making our tees longer and a few more tees and moving them up just a little bit to even move the game maybe a little faster, but also don't make anything too tough. They want to have fun and I think this is a great idea. This is what -- life is wonderful, but you want -- you also want to have fun with it. Every day is a gift from God, so -- and I know that it is always fun for me to play with a lot of the ladies at home and I play with quite a few of the fellows at home and I have never run into anything like that. It has been a very, very -- like Louise, it has been a very, very happy relationship between all the memberships and I think that is great. Now, one big thing you got to remember in Florida is that during the season it is loaded with people and then for about five or six months you can't find anybody and but -- so, plenty of time to play golf and I agree with Louise, I have been very happy.

JERILYN BRITZ: There has been one time now that I think about it that there was one club that I wanted to practice at when I first came to Florida and they did have restrictions, but they said if you will promise to be off the golf course by a certain amount of time, you can go out early in the morning and I did. I would be out there and they gave me a cart and I played 18 holes in about an hour, and didn't have any problem with it. They did allow me to play even though they had their own rules or that sort of thing.

LOUISE SUGGS: We butted heads a lot; didn't we, Patty?

PATTY BERG: Oh, yes.

LOUISE SUGGS: We played head-to-head. Of course, Betty Jameson was there, Baby was there. We were the four. They called us "The Big Four" at that point. Then along came people like Mickey Wright, Betsy Rawls, McKenna that you may or may not know that was a good player, and I think it just seems to be a spirit of people like you are talking about people destined to be champions, it seems to me, that has been my feeling about it through the years and it depends on what you want to put into it. I dedicated my life to golf for various reasons -- I missed a lot by not doing some other things, but in a sense, I didn't miss anything. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. I have been teased about, you started with a gutter birch ball (phonetic). Not quite, but I did start with wooden shafts. It is just -- I don't know, I mean, and I think you rise to the level of your competition and by God, when I was out there, I was going to win. I think Patty was the same way. And I mean, we fought tooth and toenail. It just depended on the era and just certain ones in that era. As you say, it is very true right now. And I have noticed that too.

LOUISE SUGGS: Apparently they are scoring better, and I mean on the books from that standpoint they are, but --

LOUISE SUGGS: Yes, we did. They are hitting the ball longer. Their equipment is different. Of course, courses are manicured to perfection. I played with a lot of these kids out there that are hitting the ball a ton, so is Patty. I wouldn't want to play with Jerilyn now. She played the last time, I mean, when you won The Open, I think we were paired together. I don't remember really, but I thought we were first two rounds, but anyway, and then some smart ample there, you mean to tell me you were still playing golf in '67; I said, yes, but it is -- I don't know how to describe it either. I play with Beth Daniel a lot, Jane Geddes; and if you spot me enough yardage, I will take your money because they are not going to beat me around the green, I mean --

JERILYN BRITZ: I kind of think it is difficult to compare one era with another because there are so many variables. She mentioned a few with the maintenance of the courses, the equipment. As Patty has mentioned, I think if you put that equipment into their hands and have them be the same age, it would be very competitive. So I think for these lady's era, you know, they were the best of their era and then in my era, they are different than that era and the next era is going to be onto their own and it would be very difficult because of the variables in separate areas a little bit, especially the equipment. As far as our tours go, the girls come out of the tournament ripe now. When I went out, I had to learn to play tournament golf on the Tour. I had never played tournament golf before. And very, very few players come out that way. They have mini tours, they hone their competitive skills in the mini tours. When they come out, they are not in awe; they are not wondering what to do. They are not strangers to travel. They are not strangers to competition. I think that makes a huge difference too. They are ready.

PATTY BERG: I remember in winning a trophy one year and the average was-- I had -- was 74.47 and today it is around, I think, 71 or maybe I think it is around there, I am not sure. But it is lower. We got to remember, you have got a tremendous volume of people out there. You have qualifying schools and everything. We, for a while, didn't have but five people playing in a tournament, a winning total may have been $500 in 3 tournaments, so it is a big difference and today, it cost -- and before it did too, but not as much as it does today. It costs a lot of money to stay out there. I think one of the big differences of success is the will to win and not wish to win. Today, I see mostly the will to win and not wish to win. I think that is very, very important because if you have the wish to win, you are going to be out there practicing the things that you need to practice on and not a driver that you are hitting a long ways. That is the difference between wish to win and will to win - is that you practice what you are weakest at and that shows you -- shows, then, that you do have the will to win to practice the things you are weakest at. I realize that -- and the equipment is better. Louise started in hickory shafts and I must add, they had a lot of feel to them and everything, but I was happy to get to the steel.

LOUISE SUGGS: I gave up family life. I was engaged to a young man that was killed flying. My escape from that was to put myself into golf. So as things evolved and I just didn't have time to do other things, I played tournaments and Patty and I did the same thing. A bunch of us did. We gave exhibitions and clinics between the tournaments. We travelled all over the country. We were better known probably than some of these kids on TV today because we played golf and went to towns with the members and they walked with us; we had lunch with them. We were known just by being with them constantly. It is a hard thing to describe. I don't know how to put it. I can tell you one thing. That I, one morning, gave a clinic in -- well, somewhere in Louisiana and had lunch; drove to Streetport; gave another clinic and had dinner. Now, that is pretty hard to do. The people sitting in the offices didn't realize how much travelling that entailed in trying to play golf and all that young and it wasn't easy, but we survived and I think the game to us is better than it might to these kids. I don't think they realize what we went through to get it where it is. I can still see Betsy Rawls out marking the golf course right now and marking -- the greenskeeper was with her, helped her, and all of us did the same thing, but he was cutting the cups and the greens and putting the tee markers up and just things like that, so when we walked out on the course, we would already been on it, but even so, but -- and we had to make our own rules and rulings and believe me, that got into -- when I was President, the thing -- I got in one hassle with one gal. Lucky, we are still alive, be that as it may, we survived that, but you can't do that. You can't be judged by your peers, so they tell me now. So --

PATTY BERG: First of all, they had the first one up at Spokane Country Club, Spokane, Washington and it was matchplay, so on Monday and Tuesday we had 18 holes qualifying, Monday and Tuesday. And then they had, I think, 32 that qualified and so when -- if you count down, you can see you played 36 holes every day, because you played the matches. And the semifinal matches was 32 -- was 36 holes and they also the championship match was 36 holes so, you played a lot of golf, but I tell you, playing in Spokane Country Club they had beautiful fairways, things just like you have here; it was a delight. Wasn't even thinking about how long or how tough it was. That is the way we started and then went into the metal play after that, so that was quite a test to golf. The same thing has happened when you had the PGA in 1958 you changed into metal play golfing score; won the first one. But the other ones were matchplay. We have all had a little bit of both.

JERILYN BRITZ: It was interesting to go through airports sometimes because one I recall I was sitting there doing a crossword puzzle; someone would come up and tap me on the shoulder and say, you are Jerilyn Britz, right, I'd say, yeah, he'd say, I knew it, that guy over there owes me 10 bucks. So it would be those type of things that happened that never happened before.

LOUISE SUGGS: It did make a difference and my first one, I think was my first tournament win as a pro. I am not even sure about -- that it was in '49 at Prince George. I beat Babe who was second and by 14 shots. And somebody -- I have been teased about it -- said did you play the same course, that sort of thing, but I must say this: And I don't know how many people have ever realized it but I won 50 golf tournaments and I won $200,000. Now if that doesn't make you want to throw up, I don't know what does. But today that would be in the neighborhood of 8 million bucks when you take the seconds, thirds so forth so on. Somebody said to me well, it is all relative. I say to hell it is, it ain't that relative. It is true, but anyway I have had a very, very good career and I am appreciative.

JERILYN BRITZ: Get the backpay.

LOUISE SUGGS: I am going to charge you for that lesson if you don't be quiet.

LOUISE SUGGS: I have had a lot.

PATTY BERG: Well, when I played one of my first tournaments I had the highest score Minneapolis City Championship; then I lost, I believe, every hole, and I remember going home my dad says -- he said, I played terrible. He said, how did you do. I said, I lost 10 and 9 or 10 and 8. Oh, he said, you must have been playing a 36 hole match. I said no, no, only 18 dad. He said, oh, then you were bad. But I learned from that day, the next year going back to the clubhouse I said to myself I am going to really work at this and I did, almost 365 days and next year I am going to try to do better, maybe to the fifth that could be 10 and 8. What happened is I went along 365 days I was able to win the tournament and I went home that night and I put my head on the pillow. I said, I did my very best and I won. Now maybe I can play in the Minnesota State, maybe I could play in the Women's U.S. Amateur, Western Amateur so forth so on, and maybe some day I could have golf as my livelihood and that is exactly the way it turned out and I want you to know it was worth every freckle on my face and I had a lot of them then.

JERILYN BRITZ: I think the most memorable experience I had on the golf course was I had my second year of golf I went around all the businesses in town and got to try to solicit a $10 entry fee to our -- I think it was the Minnesota Women's Golf Association Championship or something that was being held in Minneapolis, and I think I got the $10 from somewhere; made the trip up and then I sat in the parking lot for probably hour and a half to two hours waiting for everybody to finish teeing off on -- this is the first big tournament I had ever been in, and finally it was kind of rainy and kind of messy and nobody was around; got out of the car; got my clubs; went to the first tee and getting ready to hit and this player walks up from the clubhouse and she introduced herself. Here it was, one of the premier players in the State of Minnesota and I had recognized her name from the papers, so I was very, very nervous, so I took a mighty swing with my driver and I hit it fat and mud flew. I mean, it was awful and I was looking out to try to find my ball through all the mud and I never could pick it up. I asked the lady, I said, did you see what happened. She said, yeah, it is right there. It was right in front of my tee in the ground, so that was a pretty memorable experience, but after that she was real nice. I think I finished fourth from last; got over the jitters. It was my first experience. I loved it.

LOUISE SUGGS: One of my experiences was against Patty and I was 15 years old and my aunt lived in Miami. She told me that if I did well she'd have me down there to play Miami Biltmore. So I was there and I qualified for the championship; won my first match. I was paired against Patty Berg. So here I am again in the first three holes, I was 3 up. Patty doesn't even remember this. And so word got out of the clubhouse some 15 year old kid out there, she has got Patty Berg 3 down. Here they come from everywhere. At the end of 9 holes I was even. And so that was the end of that. She beat me, and similar thing happened in the first amateur I played in, my first match I won somebody when I walked off the 9th green said, how are you doing. I said, I am one up, and then the wheels turned and I am not supposed to be one up, so I don't know, I lost 4 and 3, something like that. These are things that happen and they make you come to your senses sometimes, but I will say one thing, there were no tournaments during the war and last time was in '41; next time was in '46, but in that interim period, golf balls were recovered like recapped tires. No gasoline, you couldn't go anywhere and I lived -- my family owned a public golf course. I lived on the golf course, so I practiced and towards the end of the war, they started having a few more tournaments like the north and south; couple of the Western and whatnot. I had won most of those tournaments, so when it came time for the next one at Southern Hills I was touted very heavily to win it. Well, I qualified well. My first match was Peg Connolly. You remember her?

PATTY BERG: Very good player.

LOUISE SUGGS: End of 18 holes we were even. Go down to 19, she laid me a perfect stymie. She beat me one up on the 19th hole. That really took the air out of my baloon and I finally, in my big headed way, thought you have learned a lesson; you don't win every time you walk out.

PATTY BERG: I just think that over these period of years and seeing we have had a tough struggle because it was right after World War II and families are getting back together and different things were taking place, so it was a little slow, but it came along, I feel now a great style, but I felt the Ladies Professional Golf Association is the best and the greatest -- I think that it is the greatest and best women's sports -- professional sports organization in the world today and it is getting bigger and bigger, better and better and greater and greater. And I think it is due to the fact of course, the stars of it; what the efforts and everything were put into it, which were great and wonderful efforts. Women's professional golf Association which was run by Hope Singus (Phonetic). She put a lot of time and money in it and a lot of spirit and worked very hard. She was going to get the tournaments for it and then Ellen Giffin was going to be a head of the teaching division so forth so on. And it came right after World War II and it just didn't quite -- didn't quite have enough money and the people weren't ready for it yet. However, a few years later back in 1949 Fred Corcoran our tournament director and with that, and companies putting money in, not for prize money, but to help run it. It cost money and then we stayed there for six years and then other companies came in and then it's come along to where it is today. But also, when there is -- the biggest key of it too is the ladies themselves, because they did -- anybody that joined this organization today and has been in it, has put their whole heart and soul into the growth into women's professional golf. They have done it themselves with the great help from the American people and the American public and the golfing public and also next thing of course, is they have done a tremendous -- you all know, this tremendous public relations job and they have had -- they have been very sincere. They have done everything they can to build their organization and they have done a super job.

LOUISE SUGGS: No, I didn't. That is too far ahead of this for me, I guess. I remember all this travelling and stuff in the caravan and you talking about being in airports, we didn't have airplanes in my day, hardly, but we did have to drive everywhere. Patty, you know that, and we had some good kids on the tours back at that time; names that you more or less have forgotten, and just it is -- when you start opening the can of worms, I mean, you start thinking about a lot of things. But I am so glad it really did happen and as Patty said, the companies contributed to it. They paid Corcoran to book the tournaments and when the PGA, I think, I am safe in saying this, got so big and got their -- the companies put the same amount of money into the PGA as they did in the LPGA, and they decided that the PGA was large enough, am I correct in this? They took their financial support away from them and they said, by the same token, if we do that for the men, we are going to have to take it away from the women and so we were just at that point of where we were, more or less, ready to burst and now we got to start all over, so to speak. That was hard. Volpe was the one that really sort of helped get us over that spot.

PATTY BERG: I think that too. I just want to say one other thing about the Ladies Professional Golf Association, when we hired them hired Fred Corcoran, who had been head of the PGA scheduling and everything of the Tour, he said in one of the meetings he said, now we ought to change the name from Women's Professional Golf Association to the Ladies Professional Golf Association, so we asked him why. He said, I think it sounds better, "ladies," and that is when they got it in as it is today. I think, however, as we have gone along now, we are getting along in years, I think the PGA has done a tremendous job for us and any time that we have a tournament at any of their golf courses, they have been wonderful, super, to us. But I always learn and you always have to work together and I do think that we try to -- we did and have patterned a lot of our ideas and things after the PGA.

LOUISE SUGGS: We did, definitely.

PATTY BERG: I do think this, I think that PGA has been one of our tremendous supporters and also they have also -- when we have had tournaments there, they have gotten tournaments; they have gotten tournaments for us too. Louise was right when we went to play in different tournaments and then we go and around clinics and exhibitions for various companies, that in time we go into these places and we end up getting the tournament for it; isn't that right?

LOUISE SUGGS: Yes. We had a man that was booking for the PGA. If he couldn't book them, he'd try to book us. Then he'd -- Carter, that was the guy's name -- anyway, we survived, but it was rough and we all spent a lot of our own money at this trying to get it going and we got it going; didn't we old girl?

PATTY BERG: But I think we were the builders. We started, but the people that have come in both the lay golfers and the organizations like Volpe and Carter and commissioner, the different commissioners that we have had, Charlie Mecham, so forth so on, have done a great job for us and also girls that have become President of the LPGA and all, they are -- all of their work that they have done, it has been a great group effort, there is no question about it.

JERILYN BRITZ: We need a Seniors Tour now.

PATTY BERG: We are going to get that going.

LOUISE SUGGS: How about a Super Seniors?

PATTY BERG: Yeah, that is what we need. I would be the only one qualifying.