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U.S. OLYMPIC SWIM TRIALS

June 25, 2016

Omaha, Nebraska

THE MODERATOR: Good morning, everybody. We have with us our NBC partners, past partner of the Olympic Trials as well as the Olympic Games, and we're here to talk about their coverage. To my immediate left is Tommy Roy, long time producer. To his left is Dan Hicks, who has been with us for a while on the play-by-play side. Rowdy Gaines, Mr. Swimming, and to our far left is a new comer of the broadcast team Michele Tafoya, who everybody probably knows from her roles on Sunday Night Football and others. I'm a little biased, but if you look at the broadcast team up here, this has to be one of the best broadcast teams in all of sports broadcasting across any event, if you look at the talent up here. So let's take advantage. I'm going to turn it over to Tommy to make an initial opening statement, followed by Dan, Rowdy and Michele, and then we will open it up for questions.

TOMMY ROY: Thank you, Scott. We're thrilled to be back in Omaha. This is a fantastic sports town and for us, in general, and the logistics of being in this building and being close by is just off the charts good. I live in Jacksonville, Florida, and I understand they were one of the candidates to possibly host this event, and I was very happy that it came here instead!

This is my fourth Trials that I've had the opportunity to produce, and we're really looking forward to Rio as well. For us the Olympic swimming, it's a special coveted assignment. Dan and Rowdy, this is their Sixth Olympics together. Michele, who's the absolute best reporter in the business, is joining us for the first time for the Trials and the Olympics, but she was with us last year in Kazan, and that was an invaluable experience for all of us. We have 22 cameras, two of them are underwater, one of them is a tracking camera that goes the distance, plus we have another one at the finish line for the touch.

We have super slow-mo to analyze the stroke, we have an X mode to show the finish, and then a new device that we have this week is called the "Dream Catcher" appropriately enough it's used on Sunday Night Football and on our hockey coverage, and as we all know the race for first and second is interesting, but the one that really matters is the race between second and third, because it's only the top two that goes on to Rio.

So this device can zoom in on the second-place finishers as they touch the wall and come back out and zoom in on the third-place finisher, and if they miss going to Rio by this much that will be documented. If they were in lanes 4 and 5 we would be able to show that, but a lot of times these races in second and third will be between 2 and 7, so that's why we have this device, and I think it will be very effective. But for us the most important and compelling part of the our coverage is capturing the emotions of the athletes that make it to Rio, and those that don't, and their families and coaches, and that's where most of our equipment is dedicated to, to showing that.

One little quick story. My daughter Kelly was here last time volunteering for USA Swimming, and her job was to be in the back and keep track of the athletes that had made it to (London) so they could bring the athletes back up for the medal ceremonies. And so when the whole session was done, the Trials, and we were flying home, she said to me, she goes, "Did you know that Michael Phelps came up and congratulated every single athlete that made the team?" And I said, "What? You're waiting to tell me this now?" I couldn't get too upset because she was only 14.

DAN HICKS: And she's your daughter.

TOMMY ROY: But those moments are what that is all about, so we've added an extra camera to be here in the back so not only do we capture the emotion up on deck but when they come back downstairs, and they're greeted by teammates and friends and family members, we'll have that as well. All of the prelims are being streamed live every single heat on the NBC sports app. We have seven prelim sessions that air later in the day on NBC Sports SN, and then eight consecutive nights in prime time, seven of those on NBC, one on NBCSN, so we're thrilled, and for some of the story telling I'm going to turn it over to Dan.

DAN HICKS: Thank you, Tommy. It's a privilege to be back here not only working with the best live sports producer I've ever worked with, and I'm pretty much attached to the hip to Tommy Roy, not only Olympics, but did speed skating with him in the winter Games, and now doing several swimming Olympics and then all the golf we do, it's great to work with him.

We've got a pretty good schedule coming up. We've got this obviously for the next week and a half or so, and then we've got the Open Championship, after we get back from Omaha and catch our breath, and then we go right to the Olympics. It's a dream-like summer to do three events like that --

TOMMY ROY: And the Ryder Cup.

DAN HICKS: And then we've got the Ryder Cup. We could go on and on, but yeah, the Ryder Cup is a little bit later on. But it's a great year for NBC Sports, and just hearing Tommy talk about the coverage plans, it's amazing to see where these Olympic Trials have come since Rowdy and I started doing it back in the dark ages, back in '96 we did our first Trials.

But it has a lot to do with the guy that's going to be following us in this press conference, Michael Phelps, and it has a lot to do with what the Olympics are all about. I have a chance to do a lot of sports, but there is nothing like the Olympics, and there is nothing like this event, because the pressure that we see every four years of all of these hundreds and hundreds of athletes that come here, and then you get 'em up on the blocks in prime time on NBC, and you're either going to see that dream come true or you're not. That's just as good as it gets in sports broadcasting and what we do.

It will be an obligation for me to tell the stories of the new comers coming up, reiterate the stars that you guys already know about and that the public, kind of, only gets reintroduced to every four years, so it's important to not assume that everybody knows who Tyler Clary is or Conor Dwyer is or whatever that may be. So you have to keep in mind that it does come every four years but it's -- it sure is a blast to introduce all of these personalities each and every four years, it's really been the highlight of my career doing Olympics swimming and working with this guy, Rowdy Gaines, the greatest ambassador the sport has every seen, so I will turn it over to my man right here, Rowdy.

ROWDY GAINES: Thank you, Dan. I want to reiterate what Tommy just said a while ago, the fact that Omaha is such an amazing city. And somebody asked me the other day what was so special about Omaha and on obviously what USA Swimming has been able to do to turn this facility into a true swimming complex, but it's the people of the community that we notice. We walked -- on our way over here Michele was talking about how nice everybody was, and people were opening doors for us, and they didn't know who we were.

It was just really nice to know the people of the community have gotten behind this event, each and every Olympic Trials, three in a row now, and like Dan said, there is nothing like the Olympic Trials. I lived it in 1984. There is no more pressure for 99% of these athletes, there is no more pressure than the Olympic Trials. It's a lot more pressure-packed than the Olympic Games even, because once you're an Olympian, you're an Olympian forever and ever. There is no such thing as a former Olympian or a past Olympian, so to have that feeling is so incredibly special, and it's so difficult in our country.

You will see a lot of events -- maybe not a lot, the rest of the world has caught up with us in many ways, but there are going to be some events where the man or woman that gets third in an event would potentially win the bronze medal or have a chance to win a medal in Rio, and they won't even go to the Olympic Games, and that's how good our country is in the sport of swimming. It's been number one for 60 years for a reason, and they have built that tradition of excellence here. I really think we are in the golden age, we were talking about it at dinner last night, of swimming. It really is. I can't remember, at least in my lifetime, and when I was a kid watching swimming, obviously we had Mark Spitz in 1972, but four bigger names in the sport of swimming ever together that swim at one time.

Obviously we know about Michael and his story, but when you talk about a first-name basis with Missy and Ryan and Katie and an incredible supporting cast with any other Olympics that would be headliners like Nathan and Natalie and Tyler and Matt, and the list goes on and on. And it's an incredible time to be a swimmer in the United States, and I'm -- I'm -- I mean this with all sincerity. I'm so proud and humbled that I can be a part of it all, again.

Like Danny said, we just have the best team. I just sit back in amazement and see what Tommy and his team do -- if you guys could only know what these guys do. They live -- this guy is here, like, 18, 20 hours a day, and most of his -- most of his staff are here constantly, 24 hours a day. They're working day in and day out to be able to bring the best pictures and the best stories to the American public.

And having a chance to work with Danny for 24 years is -- I can't even begin to put in words the kind of mentor and the kind of friend and the kind of partner he's been over those 24 years. I don't do this for a living, I just call swimming, I don't know what I'm doing, I just love swimming and to be able to be with a pro next to me is unbelievable and having a chance to work with Michele last summer -- I told her last night when I watch her on Sunday Night Football, I sit around with my family, and my family is sitting around and I'm sitting there, I go, "I know that lady," and they all go, "No you don't!" They believe I know Dan, but they don't believe that I know Michele, so it's really a thrill to work with her and have her be a part of our team as well, so we're very excited about everything.

MICHELE TAFOYA: I went to Kazan last summer with this group. It was my first introduction into swimming in terms of this level, and it was such a great learning experience, and couple things that I learned is that Tommy Roy has got it all together; just listen to him. Dan Hicks, I would listen in amazement because we would all three of us sit together prepping for each day. We all had the same amount of information, we all knew who the names were but to hear Dan call a race was mind-blowing to me. Like, how is he doing that?

He's exceptional! Rowdy has been so fun and so generous. He's got this wealth of knowledge, and I remember questioning him on something last year, and I'll never question Rowdy again, but he is -- they've all been so generous in helping me out. Someone asked me earlier, is it overwhelming to walk into a brand new sport, and I said it's fun because the learning curve is so steep again and I was up last night studying, reading, reading, taking notes, and, gosh, this is so fun because you're immersing yourself.

What I walked away from Kazan remembering, and I flew home and anyone who would listen, I said, "You may not know the name Katie Ledecky now, but you're going to know it like you know the back of your hand by the time we're finished with Rio." I was blown away by her dominance, and as Rowdy said, the age range and the depth we're seeing in this sport is really quite something. It's remarkable.

So I haven't gotten to cover Michael Phelps yet and I'm really, really excited about this. I covered everyone else last year at Kazan, but this is going to be fun. He was down in San Antonio when we were in Kazan, and he was doing all kinds of things that were making us go, "Oh, this is going to be great," so very, very excited to be part of this group and this event.

Q. Touched on this a little bit with Dan and Rowdy, but I would like to hear from you guys what makes the chemistry work so well between you for this long?
DAN HICKS: Good question. It's because you can't force chemistry. But first of all, Rowdy is one of the best human beings I've ever met many my life. He's one of the nicest people you could every meet in your life and we've all that have been in this business for a number of years have worked with people that don't necessarily -- are not necessarily your favorite people. For whatever reason it may be.

So Rowdy is just one of the best people I've ever met, and aside from that, I have never been with anybody that's had more passion for what they do for the sport that they're a part of. He's just the greatest ambassador the sport has ever seen. So for me to work with a guy who just absolutely can't wait to get to the pool to talk about what's going to happen in that session, I mean, that's like a dream come true. We work a lot of long hours. I've seen Rowdy sprawled ought over an air mattress in a voiceover room in Sidney, Australia, every single hour of the clock, and we get him up, you know, after maybe an hour nap, and he's got these bright eyes and he's ready to go call another race. That's something you can't fake.

I also have a passion for what I do, too, and I love people that love being the absolute best they can at it with a great work ethic, and he's just -- he's all of the above.

ROWDY GAINES: Well, Pat, I know that you understand what I just said about Dan, and it's so true. I think Dan's right, you can't fake it, you know? I think that friendship definitely comes over in the booth. That's a given, right, our friendship is. You know about that, but he's just the pro's pro, man! I've never seen a guy prepare like he does. It's just unbelievable. Like Michele said, he's the first one there, last one to leave. I sit back in amazement on some of the things that he's able in the broadcast booth, and I will tell you on behalf of both of us it's really also a lot about the team around us.

The people that Tommy has put together and what he's capable of doing; it really helps us, too. Mike Unger is, as most of you know, is somebody that we couldn't live without. A lot of support that we get from USA Swimming is just incredible, everybody from Chuck Wielgus to Frank Busch on down has helped us as well, and it's just helped us in our preparation, the ability to spend time with the team like we're going to do in Atlanta, those kinds of things help us together in the booth.

It's definitely a team effort and, you know, again, Dan has taught me a lot about -- I have a hard time shutting up, you know? (Laughter.) He is very good as saying, okay, Rowdy, we don't need to get excited on this preliminary race where nobody really cares about, just take your time, wait until we get into it. So those kinds of things, like I said, he's a huge mentor of mine, and it's helped me a lot.

MICHELE TAFOYA: Pat, I would say as an observer, seeing them for the first time in a room, they both have a sense of humor, and I think that matters a lot when you're working those kinds of hours and you're digesting that much information. So they have a really fun time together and we can all joke. I remember we were sitting in the room and we kept talking about the 50 Back, you know, the 50 Backstroke, and we started singing it, "50 Back," like to "Sexy Back" by Justin Timberlake. It was funny to us, be we started making up all our own lyrics "50 Back, oh!" You know, We was all rappin' in the room, and we just had a great time! So I think that sense of humor each of them possesses makes it a lot of fun for them, too.

Q. Rowdy, considering all of the swimmers that you've seen and been around, where does Katie Ledecky's dominance over the last few years and what we are hoping to see here kind of stack up?
ROWDY GAINES: Nicole, I've -- even during Michael's heyday, I've never seen such dominance. Obviously Michael dominated, but not by the amount of time -- just from the clock standpoint that Katie has. Now, again, her events are longer, you know, and especially when you get to the 800, but it really is -- I just -- I'm at a loss for words sometimes when I think about what she has been able to do the last four years.

We all know about the fact that she has basically been undefeated over the last four years in every major event that she has swum in, but it's the way that she goes about it, you know, that's much more impressive. It's not so much what she does in the water, but it's the humility that she has, it's the perseverance, it's this quiet strength of character that she has.

I just had breakfast with her parents this morning, and you could just -- you get a sense of where that comes from. She is just a really good kid! I mean, she is still a kid, obviously, but she is just a really sweet kid.

I know that doesn't really answer your question, but to me, I think that tells a lot about how she has this entire thing in perspective.

I think that really has helped her in training. She loves to train. She loves to be out there every day and loves that feeling. You don't get that a lot! I was talking to Bruce the other day, and Bruce said she likes to practice, and that's not true for all kids, it certainly wasn't true for me. I liked the end product, but I didn't like practicing. I liked the way I felt afterwards, but not during, and she likes that feeling during, and I think that's really helped her.

Q. I have two questions. First, for Dan. You cover golf, you cover swimming, two diametrically opposed approaches to this Olympics. You have golfers dropping out like flies, swimmers making supreme sacrifices to get there. How do you reconcile those two scenarios?
DAN HICKS: Well, I think every case is absolutely personal. I think it's a real personal decision. Some of the golfers that have dropped out have talked about it, talked about how they conferred with their families, conferred with their doctors and where they are in life, either newly married or having families, and so I'm not going to begin to, you know, criticize anybody for not going to the Olympic Games, because of what's happening with the Zika virus in Rio, and you have to also remember the golf competition and the swimming competition are just -- talk about on opposite ends of the spectrum. We're going to be in this environment where we're not going to be outside, you know, on a golf course for hours upon hours upon hours, so it's going to be a very controlled environment. Nonetheless it's still a risk, it's a real issue, but I think golf and swimming from that aspect couldn't be more different.

And I'll say this: I've been asked about it a lot: Every Olympics we get to there is some issue that is the dominant subject. Again, this is a very real health risk, but I think hopefully -- and I think by the time these Games are over with, I really hope there is not going to be anything that sticks out as a story beyond the great competition which usually every time takes over the whole spirit of the seventeen days of the Games.

Yeah, it's -- I'm not going to be involved with the golf. I will be obviously keeping one on and one ear on it, because I think it's going to be really exciting to have golf back in the Olympics, but I think they are two different world's: Golf and swimming at the Olympics.

Q. Rowdy, from all that you've heard and read, do you think swimming is cleaner in 2016 than it was in 1984 or not?
ROWDY GAINES: I don't know. I hope it is. I want to believe it is. But there's always going to be cheaters, Karen, there just is. We can't hide our head in the sand about it. I was talking to a reporter the other day about Katie and he asked me that same question, because of her dominance, what do you think? I would stake my life that Katie Ledecky is clean. And I would stake my life that every athlete swimming in these Olympic Trials are clean, just because I believe our country is that way.

We just -- we live by a different law here. We have to have an understanding that we have a life after swimming. It's not that I blame some countries, forget about swimming, I'm just talking about in general, you know, but when you're from a Third World country, for example, or you are from a poor country and your whole life revolves around supporting your family, and you're making whatever it is dollars per day and then you have a chance to make thousands, sometimes millions of dollars by winning, you sometimes have to do what you have to do.

I'm not condoning it, but I think you have to look at the dynamics behind the reasons why people do what they do, but it drives me crazy, Karen. It's the one thing that I think could destroy the Olympic movement is drugs, and we have to be vigilant in continuing to try to stop it, and I think we are. I mean, I think the IAAF made a huge decision the other day when they banned the Russian athletes. I know there is talk about letting some in, but at least they made a stand, right?

You have to start somewhere, and I think that's something that we've got to be able to do in the future, make sure we keep this sport clean, not just swimming but all sports, and I think we made a lot of headway with what's happened the last couple of weeks.

Q. Tommy, how much -- or what's going on with the Russian situation with the systematic state doping situation and all of that? How much will that play into your coverage?
TOMMY ROY: I don't think it will play into any event here for the Trials certainly, and once we get to Rio that's more of an overview subject that the IBC and Costas and group will be dealing with.

Q. Dan and Michele, Dan, you covered swimming for a while, Michele only a year, but what have you seen from these athletes that surprises you? Dan, every time you're here and Michele in Kazan, what really stood out about swimmers, about the sport of swimming that, you know, surprises an outsider?
DAN HICKS: First of all I think the personalities that are involved in swimming are really fun to report on. Not that you get into a routine with other sports and they're robots or anything like that, but I don't think there is any other sport -- there is no other sport that I've covered that has an more eclectic group of personalities and characters, I mean across the board, diverse, all backgrounds, all sorts of people and from a story telling aspect of what I do, which is my big responsibility.

There is no more fertile ground for a broadcaster for what I do than what the swimmers have presented us, and me, the opportunity to talk about through all these years.

You know, it does take a certain mentality, I think, to stare at that black line and figure out a way to be motivated, and like Rowdy said, he wasn't a practice swimmer but at the same time he wanted to be the best he possibly could, and there is no other way than to get into that pool and rack up the meters.

So I've got a great respect for what they do, and the closer I've been able to cover it and the more I talk to Rowdy and the other experts in the field, it's a pretty exceptional sport, but I just love the personalities and the characters.

Gary Hall, Junior from years ago to what even Michael Phelps has gone through and his incredible saga and story that's unfolding is really -- it's really been a pleasure to talk about, introduce America to at the Olympics and Trials and so that's been the most fun for me is the personalities that we're going to introduce more of the same this week.

MICHELE TAFOYA: Two things jump out to my mind, one is how accessible the swimmers are and the coaches, really. It's a far cry from professional sports, and that's not to slap anybody in professional sports; they've got a schedule, they have their things, but I think what these swimmers understand is they get a limited amount of time to tell their story, to promote their sport and to talk about this, so they are great about just being accessible and talking to you as much as you want.

The second thing, I think, that most people -- you watch a race and you watch the excitement at the end, and you know they're tired. I can remember in Kazan, and I think it was Missy and probably multiple people would come over to stand and do the interview, and I remember Missy once standing there, she had just got out of the pool, and she's going, Ow, ow, ow, and I said, "Are you okay?" And she said, "My whole body hurts so bad right now!" And I had taken that for granted, what they put their entire head-to-toe body through from a musculoskeletal perspective to compete at that level. I was suddenly like, wow, she is in pain! You know? They're in pain when they're done, and that hadn't occurred to me before, and I think that's something that people should -- hopefully we will get people to appreciate more.

Q. Rowdy, first of all, when you watch Michael this week what will you be looking for? What are you most interested in seeing as a long-time observer? Second part, what individual race are you most excited to watch this week?
ROWDY GAINES: Well I think Michael will certainly try to fine tune a few little things. When I talked to him in Santa Clara he said I just want to make sure I'm doing the little things right. I know I will be at my best physically, emotionally, mentally, but I need to make sure I do -- I need to make sure I get off the blocks well, I need to make sure I do my turns right.

Those kind of little things are very important to him so I think I will be looking at the little things, technically for him, how his underwaters are, but, you know, I'm bringing my wife and one of my daughters to make sure they get to watch Michael Phelps swim, because this -- even though four years ago --

DAN HICKS: You said that four years ago.

ROWDY GAINES: Even though four years ago, we kinda said, maybe this wouldn't be it --

DAN HICKS: We're not going to do that this year, by the way.

ROWDY GAINES: I think we can say this will be it.

DAN HICKS: You think we can?

ROWDY GAINES: I would be shocked if he did it again, but, just to kind of appreciate what he's given the sport over the last 16 years. He has changed the sport more dramatically than anybody else in history, or any entity in history. I think for this week I'm just going to sit back and enjoy this artist and what he's been able to do.

From a technical standpoint, I'm just going to look at the little things, see how his stroke looks, make sure he's riding high on the water, those little things from an ant list's standpoint, but from a personal standpoint, it's going to be a real joy to watch him.

I think for me, the two races that really stand out for me, and they're kind of unusual, obviously Michael's races and Katie's races those are givens. The men's 100 Backstroke, for some reason, I'm really, really excited about -- like I said, this is a case where you've got three and of course there is going to be more, but three really huge names in the 100 Backstroke in our country, and one of them is not going to make the Olympic Team, at least in the 100 Back. You've got the Olympic Gold Medalist, you've got, you know, the guy that's got the fastest time in the world this year, and then you've got Ryan Murphy, who I think is going to break the world record this week.

So you've got all three of these guys, and it's just going to be an incredible battle, and the 100 Backstroke is another event that I think we've medaled in every single Olympic Games. I have to check that fact, but I think -- every single Olympic Games in history we've medaled in the 100 Back --

TOMMY ROY: Rowdy, medaled is not a verb!

MICHELE TAFOYA: I was going to say, are we allowed to say that now?

TOMMY ROY: No.

ROWDY GAINES: Sorry, has won a medal in the Games. So the point is Men's 100 Back, and then the Women's 100 Freestyle is going to be another one that I can't wait to see. I think Mike Unger was telling us the other day that he's got the Olympic Gold Medalist, the World Champion from 2013, the World Champion from 2015, and, again, one of them is not going to make the team, individually anyway, so those are the two races that I'm looking forward to the most.

Q. Rowdy, could you compare and contrast this event from when you first encountered it to what it is today?
ROWDY GAINES: Were you there in '84?

Q. No, I look like I was, but no. (Chuckles.) And is it possible that the dual purpose of this meet right now, to pick the Olympic Team and also to be this spectacle, this Super Bowl of swimming, can they work at cross-purposes at all?
ROWDY GAINES: What do you mean?

Q. Could one distract from the other, could it be too much of a burden on the elite swimmers with the massive humanity --
ROWDY GAINES: Oh, I see. Well, you know, Karen had great article on that this morning. I just read it. It really -- I mean, it's true, it personifies -- we had an argument about this a couple of months ago about whether or not this meet was too big! Absolutely not it's not too big! Are you kidding me? This is a great chance -- I mean, Caeleb Dressel was, like, next to last four years ago, and I don't think if he had that experience -- I'm not sure he would be prepared like he is today to make the Olympic Team.

I think that experience helped him tremendously. So what if they have to wait around for a couple hours, big deal. Wait until they get to the Olympics, you know, and have to do what they have to do at the Olympics. I think this is great. I think there should be 5,000 kids. Who cares, as long as they put 'em all together. I think this is a wonderful opportunity for these athletes to be able to see what the big-time is.

Getting back to your quick question about '84. Dude, there were like -- Karen may know this more than I do, but there were 400 people that qualified for those Olympic Trials, half the stands were full in Indianapolis. It's completely different. Not that it wasn't just as intense to make the Olympic Team, I felt more pressure at the Olympic Trials than I did at the Olympics, and I promise you most of the athletes -- not all of them, but most of them will tell you that the Olympic Trials is a lot more pressure-packed than the Olympic Games when they even get there, even the first-time Olympians will tell you this was a lot harder than the Olympics. And I think a lot of it is USA Swimming's fault, and the fact that when you walk out there on the deck and see that, oh my gosh, it's unbelievable! It's our Super Bowl. I've said it before. We don't have a World Series, we don't have a Super Bowl. If my beloved Chicago Cubs can't do it one year, I can always hope they can do it the next year.

It's every four years, a long four-year journey, and they deserve to have something like this, and as many as possible deserve that feeling, to be able to swim at an Olympic Trials, and I think it really helps our sport. I told Karen this, I think that maybe swayed her a little bit on my side. I think it really helps our sport grow when -- I get more people talk to me about their kids swimming at the Olympic Trials and oh they got to swim at the Olympic Trials, they might make the Olympic Team, to give them that hope, and that helps that sport grow. That means that person that swims at the Olympic Trials goes back and tells 8-year-old kids, I swam at the Olympic Trials, and they want to be like that kid that qualified at the Olympic Trials, even though they got 83rd in the 100 Backstroke. So I think it means a lot to our sport to have those kind of numbers here, and I kid about 5,000, but this 1500-2,000 is a good number.

And we can't help it if you set the times -- I mean, Larry Herr set the daggum times, and, you know, blame him, too, because we thought the times we wouldn't have more than 1200, right? And the kids stepped up! I mean, they looked at the times and said, okay, I'll make that time, then.

THE MODERATOR: Thank you, everybody.

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