U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

June 24, 1997

Peter Liebschutz

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, thank you. Well, it's good to be here, and I'm not sure where you want me to begin to talk about things, but it's maybe -- well, first of all, I'm an amateur, and I've been an amateur for a long time, and I'm very glad to be here. I qualified out of the Buffalo, New York area just one spot for 30-odd numbers of contestants, and so that's how I got here. I'm not sure, Les, what you want me to talk about with the background.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Pardon me?

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Keep going. Well, I'm a lawyer, and I've been practicing law for about 35 years. And when I practice law, I kind of gave up playing golf and go out once in awhile and play, have some fun with it. So it's kind of an honor and a privilege to have the opportunity to qualify and come here and play. We had the U.S. Senior Open in Rochester, I think it was the fourth Senior Open, back in 1984 in Rochester, New York at Oak Hill East, and I see things have changed because in those days, there was a par 3, I happened to be the hole captain for the 15th hole, and that hole, they were hitting 7s and 8s and 9-irons into where normally you would be hitting 2 or 3 or 4-irons, so we were playing the courses then, I think, from the white tees because we were old and we were senior golfers. But, now that things have changed, it's a real challenge to have to play the back tees, and I'm looking forward to it.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, in fact, one of the Senior Opens was being played in Rochester, I'd been having the vertigo and loss of hearing and loss of equilibrium and some paralysis for several years. And it was right after the Senior Open that they diagnosed that I had a brain tumor, and at that point, they didn't give me much hope at all because it was quite large and involved. And that was in 1984. And I had to leave Rochester, New York, my home town, and go down to New York City, where interestingly enough, my roommate from Colgate University is an outstanding physician down in New York, and fortunately he deals with the finest of the different disciplines - in this case a neurosurgeon and neurologist - and in November, 1984, when I was down in New York City, they performed a brain tumor operation, which had probably a 10 to 15 percent survival. And of that, they said probably 50 percent would be rather comatose. So there wasn't much -- I couldn't really look forward to wanting to play sports or playing golf after that. And I've had residuals since then, because I am totally deaf in one ear and have trouble with vision, and the equilibrium is adversely effected, and there is some paralysis. And, in general, it's just -- I guess it's been a struggle, so if you don't play too much, it's not that much of a struggle.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Very minor. Exactly. There's been some parallels. I spent time in Vietnam, and I was there during 1966 and '67, and you're right, Les, coming back and more people were concerned with the 2-foot putt than they were about the things that were really going on in the world that, unfortunately, we weren't really that concerned about. I also had major knee surgery back in 1964, which was originally a high school football injury at -- it was a lateral meniscus and ten episodes in the hospital. And finally, after, I had to withdraw from the New York Amateur Championship. I shot 67 against Mike Ternesa, Jr., at his home golf course down in Elmsford, New York, in Westchester County at some country club. He shot a 69. I felt sorry that he was eliminated from the tournament. But, my knee was dislocated and dislocated for 27 hours, and finally they got me back up to Rochester, where it was operated on. I was in a cast for five-and-a-half months, and the doctors then said, "Don't have any hopes about being able to play sports."

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: A miracle? I don't know. It's -- you know, I'm kind of small to begin with, so I'm kind of used to challenges in some ways. Yeah, they were -- I don't know -- the surgeons down in New York, they've been wonderful. I am periodically down there every year, and without all this, they thought the recovery was really quite uplifting for them. So, I mean, if you'd seen how bad I was coming out of the surgery, I mean, I was rather grotesque. There's a significant amount of paralysis, and I kind of had to fight it ever since then to regain what I could. Yeah, in fact, the doctor called me last night to wish me well. It's just been a wonderful experience.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Just kind of my own at this point. It's -- they give me periodic MRIs to kind of monitor how the brain tumor, which could come back, and to see what other kind of involvement. The rest of it is kind of -- I'll go out on a basketball court and shoot foul shots and things like that, try to get back the eye-and-hand coordination. Because after the operation, I would take a foul shot and be 6-to-8 inches to one side. I didn't know why because I could shoot quite well, and it took time for me to get it squared away. I thought if I -- what I really did was, when I shot the ball, I thought it was going in, and it was 6-to-8 inches to one side. I would then shoot 6-to-8 inches away from the basket, and it worked its way where -- so this is my kind of therapy, to kind of overcome, when I do these other sports, to help with the coordination.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Putting?

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, yeah. Well, I think that's -- I have trouble with the vision, and to give you an idea, when the sun is out, my right eye is paralyzed, and my left eye - because both eyes are light sensitive - my left eye will close, and it leaves me looking through the bad eye, so to speak. So it's a blur, and I can't see well. And it's -- thank goodness I have a caddie who can kind of tell me whether it's going to go left or right, because I can't tell it anymore.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: I don't know. I got married for the first time three-and-a-half years ago.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, some friends of mine, whose golf games kind of suffered, but we go back into our grade school and high school. And she's encouraged me to, instead of going weeks and months without playing, to go out there once in awhile, and that was kind of the motivation to even show up at the U.S. Senior Open Qualifier. It would have been another Monday, I wouldn't have been playing. So she's kind of encouraged me to, once in awhile, get out there. And these are friends that I grew up with, some of them at -- I enjoy -- I enjoy sports, all sports. So it's kind of a therapy to me to, once in awhile, just go out there and have some fun. As far as the talent, I don't know. I think I've lost an awful lot from what I had before from many years ago when I was healthy.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, that's very kind of you. You know, I would like to do well, and it's -- you talk about uphill battles. This is -- I mentioned about Oak Hill, back in 1984, and that's what I thought Senior golf was all about. I thought the strength of mind and, jeez, you don't have to go to the back of the tees anymore. You're older. You probably have some problems physically, mentally, who knows, but it's changed. It's not the same as it was, and they're playing it under tournament conditions. It's a National Championship, and, you know, I think I have a regret that I wish I had another week to have been able to try to get ready, physically and mentally, for this. Because it's -- you know, last Monday was trying to get airline tickets out of there, and it was difficult. And I spent my week, you know, in my law office getting squared away so I could come out here. And it really had nothing to do with most of the field that is concentrating, knowing that they were going to be here many weeks and months and possibly years. I think, they already had this site here probably close to five years ago. There's a wonderful preparation not only from USGA and the Olympia Fields, but, you know, that wasn't my ball game, and it kind of -- it was a pleasant surprise, and I'm glad to be here. But, I also have some pride. Okay, I will try to knock in a few putts, even if they roll off the green and I have to put it back on the green and take three more from there. I mean --

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: I think most people have that same pride.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: No, he is my roommate. Dr. Michael Wolk.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: W-O-L-K.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: He contacted the neurosurgeon, and during the summer, I flew down there in July 1994, and he came in from Nantucket. They don't do too much surgery during the summer but for some of the things like this. So, Michael is an internist-cardiologist classmate, roommate, close friend, and from Colgate, and he's with New York Hospital, Cornell Medical Center, and he called me last night to wish me well.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Yes, he called me.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: And he keeps in touch with the neurosurgeons, and I see them occasionally when I'm down there because there are periodic follow-ups that I need -- that they need.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: A fellow by the name of Dr. Richard Fraser, F-R-A-S-E-R, outstanding neurosurgeon. I'll give you an idea. New York City at that time had MRIs, and Rochester, New York didn't have any MRIs at the time, so that's why it was very bleak in Rochester, having been told that there wasn't anything they could do. It was time for the family to gather and to line up my affairs.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: I think -- this happened in November. In November of '84 in Rochester, it's wintertime. What was interesting, they have a State Amateur, New York State Amateur Championship Qualifier the following spring -- summer, I guess. It was probably sometime in the middle of June, and I wanted to get back up on the horse as soon as I could. And I was a real mess, but I went out and I qualified for the State Amateur Championship. I was fortunate enough. But, you know, it's not the same. I mean, I have a lot of problems with the seeing or the visualizing. Certainly there's a lot of disturbance with the brain, so to speak. There's noise. There's interference.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Oh, the caddie out here is a very good caddie from Olympia Fields. His name is Mark Krol, K-R-O-L, and he's a senior in high school who's going to be -- he is one of the Chick Evans Scholarship Award winners. I think there was about six out of the area this year. He's a very nice kid, good student, going to University of Indiana this fall. Was that your question?

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, I don't want any pressure on my caddie, so I barely told him some of the basics, like if he says something to me and I ignore him, it's not because I'm trying to ignore him, it's because I can't hear him. And, second of all, it's -- I said basically because I can't see, does it go to the left or does it go to the right. That would be the most helpful thing. So, if it's down out there, that he can help resolve it. No, I don't -- I never ever wanted to put undue pressure on a caddie. The final decision should always be with the player. But, a caddie can be very helpful in a lot of different ways. This kid is very good.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Very rarely. I will lose it on its way, and if I can pick it up, I will lose it on its way down. Most shots, I just can't see anymore. It's unfortunate because I used to be able to feel -- I used to play late at night - and Sam Urzetta was a client of mine who won the U.S. Amateur back in 1950 from Rochester, and I kind of grew up playing with him at night, and we could feel the ball in darkness, you know, where we hit it. And that's gone. I can't pick up the ball, so there's too many times where I don't know where it is. I know where I'd like it to be but --

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: I'll go during the summer, I'll go two or three weeks without playing at all. It's not a big part of my -- I've got other things to do. And that's what kind of interferes with golf, and I don't call it interference, really. There's other priorities in my life.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Played golf in college, switched over -- I started playing it in high school, and a friend of mine and the golf coach came out on the baseball diamond and asked me to switch over to golf. And we had a golf team that had won 100 straight golf matches, and our fourth man turned pro. We had a very, very strong golf team, and it was a lot of fun, and I enjoyed it. And going through high school, I played, you know, baseball and golf and football and soccer, basketball, did gymnastics, county bowling championship, whatever that meant, high school wrestling champ. So, whatever was there, I really enjoyed participating in and playing. It was challenging.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Oh, no, I didn't even bowl then. They just had a high school championship, and I said, okay, fine, you know. And -- yeah.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: And I watched on TV - some of those guys growing up - how to bowl, and --

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, it's a tender thing. My former personal doctor in Rochester, a very nice guy and a wonderful humanitarian, and whatever it was, the symptoms were going undiagnosed. Now, obviously, down in New York City, the neurosurgeon, the neurologist, because they see these problems all the time, as soon as you hear about this or that, they're immediately thinking brain tumor. But, it wasn't happening in Rochester, so I'm not trying to prove them wrong. They're wonderful guys. They tried, and I just -- I think I was very lucky. Unlucky in some cases, because New York City surgeons were very concerned. They thought that it should have been diagnosed a lot earlier, and if they had been able to operate on it at an earlier stage, then I would have had a lot less residuals and a lot better chance of survival and recovery. It really should have -- but, I have to go with what I've got. I've got no regrets. I mean, whatever it is, I'm here, and I'm lucky to be here, and that's how I feel about it. Some people have to get brain tumors for whatever reason. And nobody knows that either, whether it was part of Vietnam, and it was a lot of Agent Orange that I was flying through and driving through, and all I know is that's what happened, and so I've got nothing ill against the doctors. I guess they tried as they normally do in their medical practice.

PETER LIEBSCHUTZ: Well, thank you very much.