SENIOR PGA CHAMPIONSHIP

June 4, 2002

Jim Thorpe

JIM THORPE: It's such a great golf course. I guess I played Firestone half a dozen times in the past. My last visit here was 1988, and '87 or '88, I don't remember. The first thing that goes is your memory. I remember making a hole in one on the 12th hole, Par 3. I remember doing that. Firestone is a very demanding golf course, a very patient golf course. It is a par 70 this year. It doesn't make any difference this week whether you're a big hitter. The plan this week, because it's such a demanding golf course off the tee. It plays 7,000 yards for us. So it's chipping and putting around the green. So the guys that have won here in the past have an edge. Tom Watson is playing very well this year. Everyone coming in has been playing very well. If the weather stays good, we're in for a good test of golf this week.

JIM THORPE: I started off faster than I normally do. My best golf comes late, usually. I guess last year I started out early. I was up at Ridgewood. I worked very hard to try to stay in the top eight or 10. If you can stay in the top eight or ten on the money list you're having a good year. Each year we have younger players and newer players. Tom Kite and Tom Purtzer, these guys are excellent players. And once they get on the heat again, get in contention again, their game comes around just like the rest of our games. It's good for me to keep a head start on those guys. I think one of the amazing things about the Senior Tour, the guys that beat you years ago, you think now it's your turn to beat them, but that wasn't the case. I felt I played better golf after I turned 50 and I think it has a lot to do with experience and I played a lot of the golf courses a number of times and learned to play more with my head. And I always played golf that way. And even though sometimes in the heat of the battle, I convert back to hitting the ball hard, sometimes it works and sometimes it definitely goes against you. I feel the key for my game is if I can keep my putts per round between 25 and 30, then I'm always going to be a contender on Sunday. I hit the ball pretty decent, the drives are okay, in the last two or three weeks, my putting stats have been terrible. But the good thing about that, I've hit a lot of good putts. I hit putts where I wanted to hit them. So the reading has something to do with that. At The Tradition this year, I didn't hit the ball well, but I played well. I made three or four putts when I had to and that gives you a confidence. Putts from 18 inches or 10 feet, if you manage to make it under pressure, then it always gives you a big clue that your putter is starting to come around. So I think Mason had another good tournament. He shot 64 or 65 or something on Sunday. He was -- we just couldn't beat him. I think once the greens got too soft I got spin on the ball and I had difficulty keeping it close to the flag. We don't play enough golf courses where we execute -- have executed golf shots. Here we can play some low shots, some bump and run. But most of the golf courses we play is target golf, you drive it and wedge it, drive it and wedge it, and when the greens get soft, the golf clubs, I can spin the ball all day long. This course should be good for my if I putt the ball well. The distance off the tee won't bother me. I have enough patience to realize I'm going to make bogeys. So if I keep the double bogeys away, come Sunday we'll have a good shoot-out.

JIM THORPE: It's tough to say. The senior tour is tough to say. I think basically what I was saying, that if you had to lose to somebody, Tom Watson, is not a bad person to lose to. I think Tom has won all the majors but the PGA. Now I think about it and thought about it many many times, everybody keeps in mind about the putt I missed on 18, but nobody told me about the ones I made to get there. Basically all we can do is the best we can. Tom Watson played very smart golf, steady golf. If you notice, if you were there, I hit a lot of big drives, Tom hit a lot of 3-woods, made some very nice putts. Between Bob Gilder and I, and I think Allen Doyle might have been in the group ahead of us, one of us stepped up and didn't let Tom have a cake walk, we made him earn it. That's what true champions do. He did what he had to do to win. Probably the toughest thing in the world sometimes is to make that 6 -, 7-foot putt. Sometimes you're more comfortable, more relaxed when it's 12, 15, 20. One of those putts, you want to make it so bad, you hit it a little bit quick. But golf to me -- John Jacobs this year, at The Tradition, missed a putt that I thought he would make from about two and a half, 3 feet, on the first day. I really thought he would make that putt. I made my putt from around eight feet and people said I closed a door, but from 3 feet the hole doesn't change that much, just the idea he wanted to make it so bad, he hit it firm and it spun out on him. I think it evens out. Ridgewood would have been a great golf course for me to win on. It was perfect for my game because I'm a high ball hitter. I hit the best two shots of the tournament on 18, the drive and the 9-iron. When I got to the putter I probably would have erased a little bit stuff. And the statement that I made -- I hope none of the guys took it the wrong way, but I think it's better for the tour when our superstars do step forward to win. I'm not saying the Monday qualifier or a club pro, or a less named guy, I don't know if that would change anything or not, but I just feel it's better for guys like Tom Watson or Jack Nicklaus or Chi Chi and others, like Tom Kite, to win golf tournaments. I think it's better from a publicity standpoint. At least people read information and say this guy had all the potentials in the world. That's like I say Tom has been in many, many times. He doesn't panic. He does his thing and smiles a little bit. I would love to beat him. I may get a chance to do it this week.

JIM THORPE: Every tournament I win, to me, is a major. Just winning -- the thing that most people don't understand is how difficult it is to win. I look at a lot of guys that are excellent players that never win a golf tournament. I read a lot of stuff in the paper about Phil Mickelson and these guys, who can't win a major. Just winning is hard. When it comes to a major, we work on our game. We do everything we can to get ready for a golf event. And you walk on the first tee and it just doesn't happen sometimes. Going into The Tradition, I struggled. It wasn't a golf course that suited my game. And I think the same thing happened to so many players. We just don't play the golf course that matches the way you play. So basically we tee up and play, some of us have a chance to win, some can't. But to sit and predict you are going to win -- we just want to play good. We want to beat the golf course. You would love to go into Sunday with a four of five shot lead have match play one on one individual. But golf very seldom works that way. My caddie said to me on the plane, Jay Mason just won a tournament. Can you believe it? Of course I believe it. Jay Mason has always been a good player. Just the idea he's never been in that position before. He shot 65 last week and 73 on Saturday. So he kept himself in contention last week. That golf course last week was a tougher golf course. And if you could shoot eight or 10 under par, you had a chance to win the tournament. That's what he did. The greens got rock hard and its probably the first or second week we played this year without rain. We've had tons and tons of rain this year. It doesn't surprise me whoever wins a golf tournament. These guys that play the regular tour for a number of years and now play the senior tour, you know, if you play the best golf -- if you continue to beat the golf course every week, somewhere along the line you're going to win a golf tournament.

JIM THORPE: Last week, I felt I did something with my shoulder. But I thought it would be a good thing to , I mean, to go and try to qualify, but I think it's a good thing to come here and see the golf course, I think they made a couple of changes here, to give myself a better chance here. Actually I've always wanted to play the golf course. Firestone is a great golf course. And my chances are much better here than there. So next week, I'm not going to play in Memphis. I'll be up there anyway. I'll have a chance to look at the golf course and walk around with some of my favorite players and watch them play it. Years ago when I played the golf course, I knew it was a hell of a golf course if they ever got it in tournament condition. They got it in tournament condition, plus they added some length, 7,400 yards, 7,500. That's a little long for me. Even though, I'm still hitting the ball a long ways, that's a little long. And to come here and -- you know, actually my qualifying was today. I walked 36 holes and came here for the practice round. That's a bit much. I'm 53 and I'm not the same young buck I used to be. So we just go out there. I'll play nine holes today, probably 27 tomorrow, to build some stamina. I have a weird tee time on Thursday. I think he told me I was playing at 2:10. I haven't seen the tee times yet. 2:10 is a nasty tee time, unless you're leading the tournament. I'm next to the last. That is really.

JIM THORPE: TV will be off by that time. Is that Vicente Fernandez and Larry Ziegler.

JIM THORPE: That's a different tee time. It's kind of strange. But I don't know how they do it here. But you hope to draw Watson, Nelson, Kite, somebody who is going to push you to play. Not to take anything from Ziegler. He is an excellent player. He's 62 years old. I can beat him (laughter). Vicente Fernandez, I owe him a whipping. Normally we like to catch -- let's see 2:10 and 9:30. But it's fun. We know each other. I haven't played with Larry Ziegler since '64 in a golf tournament out in Utah.

JIM THORPE: You ain't kidding. Tom Watson has a 1:30 tee time .

JIM THORPE: I'll still be on the front nine.

JIM THORPE: Tom Watson, Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player, that's beautiful pairing. I personally think that pairing plays a big part. Last week I had a young man withdraw. He had a back problem. And Jerry Tucker, a club pro, took his spot. But I've known Jerry forever, and so now I've got to concentrate on pushing the golf course, and as we hit shots and walked the lawn, Jerry wanted to talk and I wanted to push myself to play the golf course. I can't get Tony to leave the golf cart and walk me. So I shot 74 or 75. People don't believe that happens. But it happens. If you play with somebody that makes a ton of birdies, you seem to catch on too. The first couple of rounds will be kind of difficult, but here is a golf course where it's not going to take low score to win the golf tournament. Tony is very satisfied with a couple under par. The golf course can't be playing very hard, I said. He said it's the toughest golf course I've ever seen.

JIM THORPE: First of all, Clyde is a gentleman. Every time he sees you he has something nice to say. He never complains. He was doing a lot of Monday qualifying, 69, 70 and 71 and just couldn't you qualify and those are pretty good scores, but he never complained. He just said I've got to play better, you know. Sacramento, I just won Napa, California, and Clyde came over and was talking to me about it was a great win, this, that, and the other. I was telling him what happened. I was leading by a one shot lead or something, I called my wife on the telephone and she says, "I wrote a check this morning to church today for 10 percent of the purse." I said, "Are you crazy?" I said, "I'll just go out there and win it," and I ended up winning the tournament. So I was telling Clyde, the next week, I'll call him and tell him to write a check, and I'll win the golf tournament. So Clyde and I were laughing about that. I said try going Q-school. He said, "I don't have the money." I said. "I will give you the money." He said, "I was there when I was younger." I said, "I'll tell what. I'll pay your entrance fee. I'll give you enough money to go out there and I'll take care of your expenses." It might have cost me $12,000, $14,000, but to me it was worth it to see a man try as hard as he was trying. And I'm just going to blow the money somewhere else anyway. And I was trying to do a good deed. I think Clyde is afraid to play. He hits the ball farther than I do. Beautiful iron shots. But he's the only guy I know that putts worse than me. But I would love to see him make it because he's one of the good guys. He tries very, very hard and he does what it takes. You can have all the time in the world if you just don't make it, but as long as you go out there and I think -- one thing I've seen in Clyde is gives 110 percent. I sent Clyde and my brother to Q-school. Clyde called me all the time. My brother never called me once. When he did call, he said, "Send more money, man." So I would love to see Clyde make it. He got his card this year and I think he's played between half a dozen times and eight, and I said just go out there and play. He said, "That's easy for you to say." Of course, it can break you down. You have to take chances out there. People ask me why I do the things I do. Like the drive I hit at Ridgewood last year -- if I pull a shot off, it's just the right shot to hit. If I didn't pull it off, it was the wrong shot to hit. So it's six of one and a half dozen of another. If I had to do it again, the way Tony explained it to me, I would do it again. But if I hit it low and hard and get it running on the right side, I can get to where I'm chipping. So that's basically what I tell Clyde, go out there and take chances, have fun with it.

JIM THORPE: Just a little bit. We talk about everything. We have lunch in the club house and we talk about everything, the guys that -- how did he win, how did that guy play. We talk about everything. Then we check around to see if the wives are close by, and then we talk about girls. He's a nice guy, and I would do it again for him. He shows a lot of -- it's just the idea, if it was meant to be it will be. We're not going to let $14,000 or $15,000 stop him from making it.

JIM THORPE: You know who is going to win. We have got a triple crown going. I picked Jump Street. I picked him. I didn't bet him, because I thought there were other horses in the field that could beat him. Belmont is a little bit further, so they're going to have to virtually put him in the lead or near the lead. They have to run him from behind because the one horse I thought that really had a chance of beating him was the horse that came in second. The lady said she didn't need the money so she's not going to run the horse. I tell you it should be an interesting race, but he won the first two steps of the triple crown in championship fashion, from box to wire. So I would love to see him go all the way. I'm go to bet two or three times this week. I was last there in 1987 or '88. Northfield is one of those race tracks, you can make some money there if you pick the right horse they're cheating with. I was in the business for years. We do cheat in that business.