CHAMPIONS TOUR MEDIA CONFERENCE

June 2, 2005

Hale Irwin

HALE IRWIN: Well, I'm only going on what others say is that 60 must be a milestone. I kind of look at it as another day in the ongoing pursuit of this crazy golf ball that's going sideways now. But I don't have any plans other than to enjoy the day with my family as I might if I was 50 or 40 or 70. I'm going up to Colorado to be with my kids and the grandkids and my mother and brother and his family is something that I wanted to do anyway, and unfortunately it's going to be during a golf tournament but that's the way it goes. But I think I've had, what should I say, a good buildup to the last decade to being 60. I don't look at it as a period of time which is going to necessarily come to a screeching halt comes tomorrow. I look at it as just sort of a passing through, a time period which may hallmark another decade of hopefully some more achievements.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I've felt that -- I've welcomed the competition. It's not something that I'm fearful of. I think when you introduce better players, better competition, it makes us all reach a little deeper and find things in ourselves that perhaps we did not believe in at one point in time, but you quickly have to find that success formula and apply it. I don't think there's anything that has made me stop and pause about my success other than what my body will let me do. Mentally, I still feel pretty capable of playing the kind of golf that I've played over the last several years. Might as well hit the U.S. Open qualifying. I had planned to enter, but coming off such a dismal PGA Seniors Championship and not really going to have a good prep this week because, well we've had our grandson here for a few days, we're taking him back to Colorado with us tomorrow. I would have to rush right straight to Kansas City and play a course I've never played before, 36 holes. And I thought, why put myself through all of the stress and strain, particularly when my back has been a little bit of an issue; and where it feels good as we speak right now, I never know when that thing is going to kick up and be a gremlin. So I just decided at the last moment, in fact, the last moment is just several days ago, that perhaps I was pushing the envelope a little bit and get back to reality. And reality is, I've just got to think of things like that; perhaps not the smartest thing to do.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I don't know if -- it's not just -- competitive is a word, and I think that comprises -- it's comprised of a lot of other things. Part of that certainly is the desire to excel. Others may have definitions of this, but in my world I think you want to excel, you want to do the things you feel you're capable of doing. You know, the old cliches, reaching for the stars and all that, I think is very appropriate. Those people that don't wish to challenge themselves are the ones I think that get left behind very quickly. The people that accept new things and are able to lift and shift and go with the flow and find ways to succeed even though that path to success is never clearly defined, they find a way to get through some of those questionable times with confidence in themselves, the backing of certainly good families of friends; they have a support system. But these are things I don't think that just come naturally. I think you have to develop those through your younger years and on up as an adult. I don't think anything is preordained. I don't think we can look at Jack Nicklaus and say back when he was 16, 17, 18 years old he was going to be the great player that he became. I think he developed so many traits that it was going to be, how successful was he going to be? Same for Tiger. We've seen Tiger as a very young man develop into the great player he is, but those things aren't ordained. They require practice, they require patience and they require an awful lot of things that may go unmentioned. It's just that formula for success is just not that clearly defined.

HALE IRWIN: I think I drive the ball probably about as well. I think when my iron game is on, that's probably the more consistent thing of all of the things I do. I'm more attuned to what I can and cannot do now in terms of shots that I might play. I think this has come about over the last couple of years when my back gave me pause to think of some shots that might give me a little bit of an irritation, you know, hitting really hard shots out of the rough, perhaps too many hooks. I get in that hook position and that seems to aggravate what I've got. So I think I'm probably more a more intelligent player now. I think I know my capabilities better. I guess what I'm saying is that I probably know how to play golf better now, but I'm maybe not as physically able to do it as I once was.

HALE IRWIN: Well, as always in any major championship, but I think particularly this case Pinehurst, as we saw a number of years ago when Payne won, we saw great patience. Even though he wasn't driving the ball fantastically, he had good presence of mind not to take unnecessary gambles. He took what was given to him, and I think what we're going to see here is somebody who you must put the ball in the fairway as always. Now these greens are not always receptive to what you think is a great shot. There's a lot of run-off areas. There's a lot of crowned areas, the ball will roll up to the green; and you will think it will be it's a shot that's at least on the green, if not a good shot, and it could well be off the green five, ten, 15 yards. I would say it's going to take someone who plays very good position golf and has the patience to put up with some wayward times. This course I would have to put more in the category of one that the British Open might be where you get some unlikely bounces. Your creativity around the greens is going to be tested, and I think it's going to be that kind of player. Vijay Singh with the attitude of just stepping up and ripping it, that may not be the attitude to have at a U.S. Open. But as I say that, I understand that Pinehurst has not had the kind of weather that's encouraged a lot of heavy growth, so it may be the rough is sparse and you can get away with it.

HALE IRWIN: That's correct.

HALE IRWIN: Well, this tournament is unlike the Masters where it's an invitational; unlike the PGA which is for professionals only. There's similarities certainly to the British Open and just the term "Open" means it is open to professionals and amateurs alike. Even though they have to be qualified, is nevertheless open, and that's what turned me on as a young person is that I could, indeed, qualify for the U.S. Open. I couldn't get in the Masters, I couldn't get in the PGA, and the British Open was something that was so far away, it might as well have been on the moon. For me, it was in my early years, it was something that meant something. Not only was it the country's National Championship, but it was something I could enter and actually perhaps play, which I did in 1966 an amateur at Olympic Club.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I didn't play there, so perhaps I'm out-of-bounds with what I'm going to say, but I think the last several years -- well, namely Bethpage and Shinnecock, I think they pushed it over the edge. Technology has quickly overran some of the golf courses that we might normally see as long or extremely challenging, simply because the ball itself goes so far now; the equipment that propels the ball out there. And let's face it, the players, too, are better players. So all of that combined makes the courses that we once saw as -- let's take a Winged Foot, for instance. In 1974, it was very long, very difficult. The greens were quite firm, they were pretty fast, very heavy rough. What would today's player do? I'm not certain, but I would think the scoring would be lower. I don't think you would have -- you wouldn't sniff 7-over par being a winning score. I think what the USGA has done, they perhaps let the technology get too far ahead of them, and now they are trying to push those scores back by doing things to the greens and to the golf course which I think compromise the integrity of what the golf course should be played, how it should be played.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I have been disappointed certainly in the only from the standpoint of rooting for the American side; but understanding that there are some great players on the other side of the world that play some fantastic golf, and many of them have learned to play over here, gone home, and they have played university golf here. Let's just say that the talents level is extremely close. We as Americans sometimes tend to turn our heads to other countries in the world that have a competitive balance or perhaps have a competitive nature, as well. The thing that bothered me more than anything else is the attitude our players seem to have, and maybe that strikes the blow for some of the attitude that perhaps some of our younger people are bringing to the game now. That's the most disappointing feature to me. I can understand players going out head-to-head and the best player wins and all that, but I just cannot imagine that somebody got more turned on, more tuned in to what's going on, maybe either in history of the Ryder Cup or what is expected of Ryder Cup players, than what I saw last time. I thought it was embarrassing. And I ever been approached? I have not.

HALE IRWIN: Well, the development, the Mississippi Jewel down at Lake City, is sort of a -- well, it says it's a Jewel. It's an area where the Mississippi River, geologically it hits some sort of a land form and it became a lake up there, Lake Peppin. Though it's a wonderful place to go during the summer, spring, summer, fall, they do a lot of ice fishing in the winter, not that we play golf up there, but it was just a really good spot. When we were approached to do a golf course, perhaps a golf course community there. We liked the area so much that we became involved in the development aspect, not just designing the golf course, but also became part owners of the development. So we felt that it was really hitting a niche in the marketplace, and has been I think surprisingly -- not surprisingly successful, but I think it's surprised all of us how quickly that the inventory of lots sold and the success that we've had there and the enthusiasm has been remarkable. The golf course itself I think is going to be a very nice golf course. We had some good property on which to develop it, bearing in mind that this is not going to be a tournament golf course, professional tournament golf course. It certainly could hold some state events, but this is a golf course built, designed for the members and those people that want to come up and play it and enjoy the Lake City area. Will it become a Top-100 course? I doubt it. But it's going to become hopefully a Top-10 of people's enjoyment level because of what we're offering them.

HALE IRWIN: It's becoming less and less unique. It's something that I look to when I get involved. It seems to have a better ring to it if we're involved on the equity side because then the majority owners can see that we're not out just to get a fee and leave them. We're there for the long haul and we get included in all of the correspondence and all of the meetings and have a say to where the roads go and how the lots layout. So therefore, the whole product is better, and it makes the golf better, as well.

HALE IRWIN: I don't know, it's in the water I guess. There's a lot of it. I don't know, I think it certainly has to do with the enthusiasm of the Minnesota people. They love their sports. Golf is a great activity in the summer. You have long summer days and it's just something I think that the people of Minnesota have really grasped onto the sporting scene, and golf is the king in the summertime. I think awful the players enjoy going up there and being around that enthusiasm. Everybody that plays up there comes away with good comments on how the golf course plays, how it is run, but more importantly, how the people react to the tournament. It's fun to play.

HALE IRWIN: Well, my mom still lived in Boulder as does my brother. He lives outside of Boulder. His two boys and their families live nearby. My son loves in Golden with his wife and my daughter lives in Superior with her two children. So my family roots are still very much around the Boulder area. We get up there as much as time permits. Our grandson that we have down here for a visit, he's been down here for four days, and it's the first trip he's made down here by himself without his mom and dad and his little brother. So we've had a good time with him. So we really try to keep our family ties as close as we possibly can. We're going to be going up tomorrow. And there was, at least to my knowledge there's nothing wild and crazy going on. Now, that doesn't mean something's not planned behind my back. But on Saturday, my grandson, Dylan, he asked me if I would go on the Georgetown train with him. So that pretty much cemented our trip to Colorado, what I'm going to do. But I'm sure there's going to be something going on, I didn't want to have something big and flashy. To me being with my family is birthday enough. I very much enjoy that.

HALE IRWIN: Oh, I don't think there's any doubt about it. I think the football, where it's so opposed to what golf is, gave me some lessons that carried over into golf. Specifically, I think the positions that I played as a quarterback and as a defensive back, while still an integral part of a team concept, sometimes you had to act independently and make quick decisions, independent decisions, and I think that that's what golf is. You have to make some decisions and live with those actions versus, let's say, a defensive tackle who has a very important responsibility, but he's got his nose in the middle of things all the time. If he occupies his space and does his job, he's made a great contribution. Now, as a defensive back, you're not in that kind of action. You've got a whole different philosophy. I think if helped me establish myself as the discipline that was needed to play professional golf, and the confidence that I could do it. Now, the third thing, of course, is to actually go out and do it. But I think all of those things really did help me. Mentioning Winged Foot earlier, I think that discipline helped me at Winged Foot. Being outmanned on the football field, outgunned all of the time, outside, outsped; Winged Foot was pretty much like that in 1974.

HALE IRWIN: Absolutely.

HALE IRWIN: I think the course sets up well for my game. It's not a terribly long golf course, at least in today's game. But what you must do there, you have to keep the ball in play. Now the times I've played well there, I really have avoided some of those areas of double-bogey. You look at the golf course, there's a lot of water out there, there's a lot of places where you can make a big score; a big score meaning double-bogey or more, particularly on the back nine holes. So I felt like off the tee, you really need to position your ball well. Just have to play positional golf. There may be times where you give up a little distance, but you must put it into position. Because all Nicklaus golf courses, he may give what you appears to be wide driving areas, they are sort of sneaky in that you can get lulled into thinking that they are wide, but they are really not, but his second shots to his greens demand really good iron play. So that's why I kind of back it up and say, okay, to play good irons, you have to be in the fairway. Even if you give up a couple yards, perhaps with an iron or a fairway medal off the tee, you must put the ball in the fairway to play into these hole locations that Jack has there.

HALE IRWIN: Yes.

HALE IRWIN: We get back every now and again. In fact, we were back there a couple weeks ago for a short time. We'll get there back there during the summer months every now and again. It's just with the Champions Tour being, as far as the regular Tour, kind of headed on the East Coast and then the northeast part of the country, it's easier to go in and out of St. Louis than it would be to come all the way back to Arizona. But at the same time, you know, this is our main home now and this is where we really kind of hang our hats. But we still keep contact there, we still have the membership at Old Warson. Still go on as if we were part of the community. Now will I entertain, yes, I would entertain qualifying again. It's just the way it worked out this year, I think this was putting too much effort, too much stuff into too narrow of a time frame for me. I think the hardest thing to realize, I think at some point in time is, is it worth going through what you need to do to qualify for a U.S. Open? For instance, is it worth the effort, and you have to kind of weigh that against some of the other things that you're doing. You don't have that single mindedness of purpose that perhaps I did when I was 25 years old. There are other things in my life that are important, whether it be family or other activities, businesses, and you just have to kind of weigh those opportunities as they come to you and say, okay, I was disappointed that I just felt like I wanted to qualify and it just wasn't working out.

HALE IRWIN: Yes.

HALE IRWIN: One year with my brother was enough for me. (Laughing). No, I was thinking about it, but he has some business that he has to take care of and just couldn't do it. So somebody else will have to put up with me.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I don't know the golf course. I've never been out there. But I did play with Tom Watson last week and he said it was a very nice golf course, and I think the players are going to enjoy it. My caddie was there the other day to kind of do a preliminary check and he said it really looked nice. So I don't think we're -- we certainly have not stepped backwards. In fact, we probably stepped forwards with the venue. The format I think always is in question. People are trying to find a different way to highlight their event, do something different, but sometimes in those efforts, they go the wrong way. I don't mind the format at all. I rather enjoyed it. I very much enjoyed playing with my brother. I think it's wonderful to be able to bring somebody in like that. But at the same time, it is different. They are not necessarily distractions, but it's just a different way of playing a competitive event. So I'm not against it. I would hate to see the entire Tour be like this. I think a change of pace is fine. I frankly think Kansas City is a great place to play. I enjoy it very much. I hope Bear Advantage continues to sponsor the event. I think they are a great sponsor and personally, for my perspective, I think everything looks really good. I just hope it is that way.

HALE IRWIN: I think it's had nothing but a positive effect. When it was in its heyday, certainly we can go back and find all sorts of instances where Jack and Tom were head-to-head and paired together. We saw some classic golf, probably highlighted by the Turnberry and Tom beating Jack eyeball-to-eyeball down the stretch. Some wonderful things occur when you put two great players like that together, and now we look at their competitive natures, they have not changed any. I look at Tom Watson, having played with him last week, and he can still play golf, believe me. The suffering that we seem to go through is more physical. Tom's putting is not what it once was, but he can still hit some great golf shots. Jack's physical ailments are well-chronicled, we don't need to go into that, and Tom has had some physical problems at well. But wouldn't it be great to see those guys at least for a day or two have some health and be able to generate some of the golf that they played in the past, or at least bring out the spark? I think it's nothing but great to see it. And I feel fortunate in my career having been around players like Nicklaus and Watson and being able to see it up close and personal how they have performed.

HALE IRWIN: Well, I think it's a little of both. I think the admission part would probably be a positive step, simply to get the USGA at times I don't think look at -- well, just thinking of their driving machine. They just recently changed it from the old wooden head and steel shaft to a metal head. So they have not been as up-to-date as they could be with their testing, and there is I think always a little bit of a rub between an amateur body and a professional body. It's going to happen. But I think that we need to -- I was not in favor of this too long ago, but I'm becoming more and more convinced that I think we need to get to a standardized ball. At least in the short term we need to bring the ball that we're presently playing back. We need to restrict its velocity requirement. I mean, we have to bring it back just a little bit. Even if you just bring it back five percent, that essentially will lengthen the golf courses five percent. Now that doesn't have anything to do with how the ball doesn't curve. It will still have its aerodynamic qualities. But I'm not so sure that we haven't lost our ability to play shots, if you wish, to curve the ball and to fit it the way we did 20, 30 years ago. You just don't see any of these young kids coming out now, they would be five-eight and 130 pounds and hit the ball 300 yards plus every time. Well, that just would not be possible if it were not for the technology. I would come down on the side of we really need to examine this, and in the short term let's bring the ball back with its velocity and examine how we are going to allow the ball to be developed in the future; or for that matter, the composition of the equipment, as well. We're just taking some of the great golf courses of the world and turning them into pitch-and-putts for some of these younger players now.

HALE IRWIN: I have not gone to the belly putter yet. As my belly gets bigger, it gets closer to my grip, so maybe in time. But really for years, I have practice practiced on my own cross-handed, just for nothing else to get a little better shoulder rotation and follow through that cross-handed does. Having not grown up with that nor used it competitively, I would probably not do that. I have worked with the Claw just to see what it feels like and to get to see what the other players are feeling, if there's any -- if it provides any improvement or otherwise for myself. I'm open-minded about it. But it's just when you've played this many years and done what I've done one way, it sometimes doesn't make a whole lot of sense to jump ship and start dancing with a different partner. I would have to be -- I would have to work on it -- I probably would not change, let's say, then through the summertime. If I was going to do it, it would probably be in the winter where I had a chance to really work with it.

HALE IRWIN: No, I do not. I don't think that's right. I think what the USGA gives now is a ten-year exemption; I think that's more than adequate. I can live with that. I'm happy with that. But I do not think winning one tournament should entitle you to play in it the rest of your life.

HALE IRWIN: No, I'm not. Hey, don't get me wrong, I think winning those events is extremely gratifying. It should not reward you throughout your entire career.