INDYCAR MEDIA CONFERENCE

September 10, 2024

Ron Ruzewski

Barry Wanser

Press Conference

THE MODERATOR: The 2024 NTT INDYCAR SERIES season comes to a head this weekend with the championship round and the Big Machine Music City Grand Prix presented by Gainbridge.

Heading into the finale Alex Palou leads Will Power by 33 points. Both drivers aiming for their third INDYCAR SERIES Championship. Chip Ganassi Racing in pursuit of their 16th INDYCAR Championship, and Team Penske looking for their 18th.

As a preview, we're joined by the two strategists for the two teams. Great to have Barry Wanser with us today. Barry is the senior manager of INDYCAR Operations for Chip Ganassi Racing as well as serving as the strategist for the No. 10 DHL Chip Ganassi Racing Honda.

Also, great to have Ron Ruzewski with us. Ron is the INDYCAR Managing Director for Team Penske as well as serving as a strategist for the No. 12 Verizon Business Team Penske Chevrolet.

Thanks to both of you guys here today. Barry, I'll start with you. Racing for a championship this weekend. What has the atmosphere been like at the shop?

BARRY WANSER: I think a lot of momentum. It's great to have an opportunity to run for another championship certainly with Alex.

The 10 car group is very focused. We have a lot of fun racing, and we're looking forward to going to Nashville and with hopefully luck on our side. I know we didn't have any luck in the last race with the early failure there on the parade laps, but hopefully all that is behind us, and we're moving on to Nashville and the luck carries forward with us.

THE MODERATOR: That's the thing about Alex. Even in times where things don't look good, he seems to always bounce back. He's very steady, and that's why he is in a position like he is heading into perhaps the third championship like this.

Ron, for you, when you get to the final race of the season and you're in play for a championship, that means you've had a pretty good season. How would you sum up the year for you and Will?

RON RUZEWSKI: It's been a really honestly pretty up-and-down season. Team Penske has had a lot of success this year. We have won a lot of races, but we've split them up between a bunch of drivers, which doesn't help for the points.

Any time you can go into the last race with a chance, you have done something right, and you're in play. We would like to be in a little bit better situation than we are.

Every team can say, Oh, if this would have happened or if that would have happened. Well, you know, it didn't. So we're just looking forward, and we're going to give it our best this weekend, and hopefully have something for the Ganassi folks.

THE MODERATOR: Reminder of the "Dumb and Dumber" line, "You're saying there's a chance." You definitely have that heading into the finale. Let's go ahead with questions.

Q. Barry, just a quick question. Can you confirm what the issue was at Milwaukee?

BARRY WANSER: I think after everything that's been checked out, it's been narrowed down to an actual battery failure, the car battery. It does not seem like now that everything has been tested that the hybrid system caused any problems with this. It was just literally a very unexpected failure in the battery.

Q. And you obviously have been with --

BARRY WANSER: In fact, we're running the same hybrid system that we had at Milwaukee. Literally the only thing that's getting changed is the battery.

Q. Obviously on your stand with you, you have got Julian and then you guys are so experienced, but you're also very calm. Alex kind of takes on your personality, or do you guys take on Alex's personality?

BARRY WANSER: I think drivers are drivers. Regardless of how excited they are on the radio or in events that are out of their control, I think those of us on the stand need to help manage those emotions.

That's something that I've always been able to do. I learned that from Chip, many years obviously working with Julian and additionally Brian Welling, a lot of years of experience there, and Crew Chief Ricky Davis.

The group of us, we're constantly talking about strategy, talking about what might happen, what we would do if this happened, and it goes pretty smooth.

Alex just does what we ask him to do. A lot of times he does more than that. He showed his level of professionalism and how calm he can be under those circumstances at the Milwaukee race too when he got back for the stand.

I spoke to him, Look, we're not sure whether we're going to be able to get the car running or not, but if we can get back in the car if we can get running, we're just going to go out there and run laps.

At that point two cars had crashed at the start, and that's two more points. We can jump ahead right there and just very few laps of running if we can get it running, then we'll just see what the attrition is.

We were fortunate to go out of the race in 27th and ended up finishing 19th. A lot of that has to do with the perseverance of the team, and Honda helped analyze the problem. Alex stayed calm in the car.

I think everyone showed -- we made sure we didn't get in anybody's way. It's obviously hard to find a spot and hide at Milwaukee when everyone is stretched out, but we made sure we pitted -- we tried to pit when others weren't pitting to make sure we had the same level of tires as everybody to make it easier for Alex to just maintain pace and not get in anybody's way.

Q. A quick one for Ron. Ron, the 12 crew I think is going to win its third straight Firestone Pit Performance Award. How confidence-building is that for you as a team in general that that crew -- you know how good they are?

RON RUZEWSKI: Yeah, it's always great when you can -- you spend so much time on pit lane these days, and it's so difficult. Whenever you can have that confidence that you're going to -- you know you got the best guys servicing the car, it just gives you that level of -- I guess it takes one of the variables out of your mind for the most part.

You're almost expecting perfection each time. You know, you can sometimes get aggressive with your strategy or you can do some things that you may not be able to do if you're not confident in the crew, but it takes time. That group has been working together for a long time. We're fortunate all three of our pit crews are really strong, and there's a lot of depth there.

They put a lot of work into it, and they're really proud of their accomplishments. You know, it gives the driver a bunch of confidence as well. So just knowing that every time he comes in that he has a chance to at least maintain if not pick up positions, it kind of radiates through the whole group.

THE MODERATOR: I can confirm that the 12 did win the Firestone Pit Performance Award for 2024. Congratulations, Ron and to your crew as well.

Q. First of all, I guess I'll start off with Barry. The Firestone testing the alternate tire again for this race. So I was just wondering if you could give any insight into how that might change the race, if that will make a difference to what we're used to on ovals this year?

BARRY WANSER: I think we've been running alternate tires on road courses and street courses for many years. Last year tried the alternate tire and alternate tire situation at Gateway.

We really don't know how the tires are going to perform. You know, it's no different than just having primary tires at Gateway. We didn't know how much degradation we were going to have, whether they were going to have passing or not. Same thing at Milwaukee. We ended up having great races there.

Heading into Nashville we're in the same situation, but now they're throwing in this additional unknown with the alternate tires. The difference is there's little regulation on the tires.

So we have six set of primaries and four sets of alternates, and there's no INDYCAR usage guidelines for us except we must run two sets of alternates and one set of primaries in the race. That means we can use the tires -- as many tires as we want in practice. We can choose which tires we want to qualify on. Then we can use which tires to race on.

After the Sunday night practice we have to declare our starting tires like we normally do, but again, there's no true usage rule. You could have the alternate tire be the favorite tire or the primary, but if you have one tire that's least preferred, that's when you can start having some different strategies play out throughout the race. Basically just like we do on the road courses and street courses with the alternate tires.

Q. For Ron, I guess the team are expected to perform quite strongly judging off your oval form the last few years. How could Josef and Scott play a role in supporting Will if the situation needs to and to help Will win the championship?

RON RUZEWSKI: Well, ultimately, we need all of our cars to finish in front of Alex. You know, having them have a good day overall is a benefit to us just trying to take points away, but at the end of the day we need seven or eight other cars to have a good day as well, assuming that Alex has some struggles.

The biggest thing that we can use the 3 and the 2 for is information. You have three world-class drivers there. The practice sessions are short, as Barry alluded to. There are different tires. So trying to maximize the information from the practice time trying to understand and get a feeling for degradation.

There's some chance of weather this weekend, so not sure how that will play into the schedule, but if it does, the more information we have, the better decisions we can make.

All three of our guys are -- they all work really well together, especially when push comes to shove and they're trying to all three run up front. It's really been a strength, especially on the ovals the last couple of years.

Set-ups aren't too different. I expect them all to work really well together this weekend.

Q. Just one more for Barry. I think there's sort of a perception where Alex is not good in ovals, but isn't as strong in ovals. I think in 20 races for the teams, he has something like 16 top-10 finishes. I wonder if you could give your perspective on how Alex is as a racer, particularly on ovals?

BARRY WANSER: I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get his first win this weekend. I mean, going into even Gateway weekend, we thought it was possible and as well as Milwaukee.

He definitely runs up front, and he certainly is capable. He loves the ovals. He understands the ovals, but the ovals are hard. It's different racing. So there's different techniques, and the veteran drivers certainly have the advantage, but it's fun watching some of the younger drivers start to pick it up.

Alex, like I say, he is poised to win his first oval, and I think he's really looking forward to that himself.

Q. Ron, I wanted to ask you what it's like to go up against Alex Palou as a competitor? I know you have a lot to think about this weekend in terms of your own performance and your own team, but you are also going up a pretty fierce competitor there? What's it like going up against him, and what do you see as his sort of strengths and weaknesses?

RON RUZEWSKI: Yeah. That's a great question because, as Barry said early on, you know, we've been competing against each other for a long time. I know we've both been at this for a while. However it works out, it always comes down to battling each other one way or another, and it's always been really from day one, Well, we can't count out Scott Dixon. Then they hire this other guy that's equally as good, if not better on certain days.

Alex is an extremely formidable competitor. The comment before about not winning an oval, in my mind that's just a matter of circumstances. You know, he's been more than good enough to win a number of times on the ovals. So the fact that he hasn't is really just circumstantial.

It was surprising to me that Colton hasn't podiumed before on an oval until last week. There's certainly a vast talent pool out there of young guys that are fast. Alex is just there. He's the complete racer right now. He takes a bad day and makes it a good day.

Everybody says, Oh, you have to be lucky or whatever, but he puts himself in a position to capitalize on luck. I think that's something that champions do.

Milwaukee was a perfect example. They had a bad day. They got the car running. They just went out there and did what they did. There was a lot of attrition. Will made a mistake. Instead of Will coming out of there close, instead Alex is in a strong position going into Nashville.

So you can't bet against those guys. I'm going into the weekend with hope, I guess, but also a sense of calmness because it's really easy for us. We just have to have a perfect weekend, and then at that point really it's up to them to lose.

Q. Barry, I guess a similar question for you. What do you see in Will Power as a competitor? Obviously you're going into this with the advantage with the points lead and everything there and things in your favor, but also, you're equally up against a competitor who has been around the series for a long time, and I'm sure you rate very highly as well?

BARRY WANSER: Oh, absolutely. Going into this race with a lead is great, but it's not over with yet. Certainly not when you are racing a guy like Will Power with multiple championships and really just one of the best on the ovals, right? He's for sure going to have an advantage this weekend.

In Portland we battled for most of the race, and the only way we were going to beat Will is if he made a mistake, and he is not a guy that makes very many mistakes.

Like Ron said, he made a mistake in Milwaukee. Alex made a mistake at Iowa Race 1. These guys are pushing it. It just goes to show how hard the racing is, how much the drivers are pushing, whether it's restarts or just during a run.

Yeah, Will is a class act, one of the best out there, and he is one we're trying to beat. We'll see how it plays out.

THE MODERATOR: This is like a mutual admiration society. We were hoping for some jabs between you too, but it's not happening.

RON RUZEWSKI: Before we started we were saying, Ron and I have been doing this a long time, and we congratulate each other. Sometimes we have the year, and sometimes the other guy has the year. One of us will be congratulating the other this weekend. No boxing matches here.

THE MODERATOR: For sure you have stood the test of time. You have a lot of experience. This is why you are in the position that you are.

Q. I'll start with Barry. Following up with your answer to Steve about the battery issue at Milwaukee, what you were saying there, going back now to Nashville with pretty much the same setup, is it fair to characterize that as it was a flukey thing then that you are sticking with the same setup for Nashville, that this is just something that could have happened to anybody? It just happened to happen to the points leader. Is that a fair assessment?

BARRY WANSER: Absolutely. It's a very fair assessment. We certainly have mileage limits that we run on the components in our control. The battery is well under those mileage limits, and unfortunately, the manufacturer determined it was an internal failure that was not caused by any external reasons.

Q. Then for Ron, you alluded to the mistake that Will made at Nashville. He was really beating himself up after the race. It seemed like the next day as well. What's his demeanor been like over the last week? Have you guys had to pump him up a little bit? Has he been promising to make good on what happened at Milwaukee? Give us a sense of Will Power right now.

RON RUZEWSKI: No, not really. Maybe a Will Power a couple of years ago it would be a different story, but we were joking around and said, you know, if we could go back and change things, we would all be lottery winners, and we can't change it, right?

So it's what it is. You have to move forward from it. He is just happy that he still has a chance, right? Nobody could have predicted Alex having a problem. Alex had a problem. All right, we had a problem. But at the end of the day the goal was still met. We went into that race going we just need to finish in front of Alex. Whatever that is, it is. We just want to have a chance going into last race, and we have a chance.

I mean, it's not as close as we would like, but we certainly have a chance, and we all realize that. But it could easily have went the other way.

You can sit there and dwell about it, but I think you have got to put it behind you and move on and do what you can and deliver the best performance possible.

Q. Then for both of you as strategists, I know that often you've got the predictive software and you're going off historical trends, cautions, all that, but you guys are racing at a track where it's been 16 years since the last INDYCAR race. Plus, it's new car, new tire. How do you even kind of strategize? Do you even go back and look at race from 2001 to 2008, or does none of that even matter? If I could get both of your answers on that, maybe start with Barry. Thanks.

BARRY WANSER: You know, really, again, there's a lot of unknowns going into the race. Certainly we look at historical information, but you typically don't make decision off historical information.

You're racing the race. It pretty much looks to be an easy three-stop race, but it can easily be a four- or four-stop race depending how the tires play out.

We did not think at Milwaukee we would be pitting early on the tires, not going the distance on the fuel. Some cars did, but you saw they paid a big price by staying out too long.

I think part of the strategy, certainly on the 10 car -- again, the strategy is not just mine. It's veteran race engineer Julian Robertson and Veteran Assistant Engineer, Performance Engineer Brian Welling, and certainly Ricky Davis who are constantly talking about our options.

We generally agree on the option we choose, but ultimately, I'll make a decision if there is a decision that needs to be made. We'll see how it plays out. I think it's going to be great racing.

I'm very hopeful for that. I think Firestone has done a great job with the tires this year, and it showed certainly in the last three with Gateway and both Milwaukee.

I think the alternate tire is going to be pretty interesting. The alternate might be the favorite tire, the primary, you never know, over the primary. We'll see.

RON RUZEWSKI: Yeah, to say pick up from that, a couple of things that are not just the alternate tire, but the way in which we have to use the alternate tire. Barry said there's no rules. We don't have to use sticker tires, but what there is is we have to use two sets of them, which obviously in a road course scenario we only have to use one set.

We have to use two sets of the alternate tires in this race. When you look at that in conjunction with the pit loss penalty, the pit loss penalty is pretty big at Nashville. So you start to look at all those different factors and when you are going to pit and how much risk you are going to take. If the alternate does fall off, are you willing to hang yourself out? Then the caution comes out. You're a couple of laps down. All these things weigh through your head.

We'll have a better idea maybe after practice one and for sure after practice two, but at that point your bed is already made with going into the race and what you have for tires and such. It will be interesting. We'll definitely be on our toes and really relying on all our resources.

BARRY WANSER: Ron touched base on it earlier. We are expecting potential weather, so even with what we consider limited practice, it could be even more limited. That can throw a wrench into the strategy as well.

THE MODERATOR: There are lights at Nashville. I'm just throwing that out there, so you know, Barry.

BARRY WANSER: Unlike Milwaukee, correct. Certainly Saturday's race we were up against the sunset. There's great lights at Nashville. It will be great to be back at Nashville.

Q. Kind of a question for both of you, piggybacking off Nate's question there. How do you approach this weekend? Obviously there's the old adage of why change philosophy with what got you here, but on the 12 car you really need a win, and on the 10 car you could points race, but Alex was saying in Milwaukee if there's a big risk of points racing as you get further behind. How do you approach a unique race weekend with so were at stake?

BARRY WANSER: Certainly for the 10 car, like Alex has already told you, we don't points race. We have to run and race to win because if we're points racing, then that affects the strategy. Again, with the alternate tires and some of that is really going to come into play potentially and play a part of the outcome of the race.

We want to run up front and run a leader strategy with the goal of finishing as far forward as possible. It doesn't change for us. We're racing to win. If you can't finish first, finish second. If you can't finish second, finish third. That's how we're going into the weekend.

Q. Curious for you, Ron, you guys obviously got to this point with the philosophy, but you kind of have to swing for the proverbial fence here to eek out a win. Do you change that with a win-or-bust mentality, or do you take it how it's been the other 16 races to get to this point?

RON RUZEWSKI: No, I would say every weekend we go into the weekend with the expectation of winning, but if we don't have a winning car in the race, we try and get the best position that we can.

I would say the only difference in this race is if it gets down to the end and we have no chance or it looks very slim and we have to maybe go off strategy or do something at the ninth hour, you would entertain that. You make that call as you go along.

I'm sure Barry would do the same if he is sitting there just out of the realm and we're leading the race, and he needs to do something to get himself into a position. You do what you need to at that point.

Sure, your best bet is to go do what you've been doing, do what got you to here, and that's try to win races.

Q. Barry, a quick follow-up for you. I would be remiss if I didn't ask. It's been a unique journey for you the last 12 or so months with the health battle you had last year around this time. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but can you talk about the journey you've had these last months, the support system you've had around you, and the chance to celebrate it with the guys onsite this weekend, just to be able to look at their eyes and their faces and the moment that would be like, especially for what you just went through this last 12 months?

BARRY WANSER: Yeah, sure. Obviously people are diagnosed with cancer every day. It was my turn last year. Just happened to be me.

I had a couple of surgeries that I was able to get done sooner than later, so that took me away from the last two races.

Yeah, I wasn't there. But just saw the team, had the Barry heads, which was pretty awesome to see from home, even on some pretty good pain meds. I can tell you the Barry heads, there was a lot of them made, and they're still around. I still get pictures today from my teammates and friends.

So I got through the recovery of that. Still somewhat recovering a little bit in some areas of my neck, but it just was great to be back with the team to start the year, and then to have another shot at a championship this year.

Certainly it will mean a lot more to me personally if we're able to pull it off and I'm there.

Q. Glad you're here.

BARRY WANSER: Your support system, it's been very humbling the amount of support I've had. Not just from my teammates, but from the paddock and all of racing in general and the fans. It's been pretty special. Thanks to everybody that have been pulling for me. They've made a difference.

Q. Obviously it's been a pretty big season. For both of you, what are your thoughts on ending the season and for it to be a championship race at an oval event?

BARRY WANSER: Chip Ganassi Racing, we love ovals. We've already talked about Alex hasn't won on an oval, but we're not disappointed it's an oval. We're happy just having a very unique series with a variety of racetracks that we get to race on. It makes INDYCAR racing unique.

To be able to finish at a place like Nashville, I think it's pretty special.

Q. And for yourself, Ron?

RON RUZEWSKI: Yeah, I agree. There's variability in both road and street course and oval racing, but I love the fact of finishing on an oval just because I think ovals are part of the INDYCAR DNA, and it's really a unique opportunity and generally close racing.

If there was more contenders in it, it gets really interesting. Especially gets dicey at the end. Strategies, different things that play into it.

I'm really excited about it being an oval. I love finishing on an oval, and Nashville is a great venue for us.

Q. Barry, just coming to you on a couple of quick hits here. Looking at it, Alex is 27 years old. This is his fifth year in the series. He has a chance to be a three-time champion. We all know that this is an exceptionally talented crop of drivers, incredibly competitive championship. How do you quantify that, or how would you even define what a third championship in five seasons, not even being 28 years old, what the impact of that is really for the series?

BARRY WANSER: I mean, it would be an incredible achievement. With as competitive as INDYCAR is, you see week in and week out how well so many cars, so many drivers are running.

For Alex to pull that off and if he were to get his third within five years, four years with us, that's pretty special, and it's quite an achievement.

Again, leading up to this point to be able to be contending for a third championship is pretty special. So it just goes to show what Alex is capable of doing. We know we've had the performance in the team with Scott for the last few years up until Alex joined us. So it's been great having two guys really being able to take advantage of it.

It's very difficult for a driver, an engineer to develop that relationship to give the driver exactly what they need to perform. That's what we've been able to do with Alex. It's hard to do with drivers. It's very hard to do.

Q. Can you also just kind of elaborate too? Now that we've had quite a few seasons now with Alex and obviously him being teammates with Dixie for so long, can you kind of elaborate on maybe how that dynamic is with them two? Obviously it's raised the profile of the team because for a long time it was Dixon is the main guy on campus, and while he still might be, looking at what Alex has been able to kind of soak up from him and just how the dynamic of that has maybe changed within the team?

BARRY WANSER: Yeah, I think even from day one I think they had mutual respect, but certainly there's a greater respect there when another driver is actually performing and winning.

What that does for the team, what that does for Scott, he's had some bad luck this year as well. If you were to add up all of his finishes where they didn't score very many points, he would be right there in title contention as well. Sometimes it's the culmination of the season where Scott hasn't been part of it in the last couple of years.

Certainly when you have more than one driver that's getting performance out of the car, that gives data and video to the other engineers, race engineers, and drivers to improve those cars. That's what we do at Chip Ganassi Racing.

It's an open book for all the drivers, all the engineers, every session, all the information. Scott benefits from that, as well as Alex benefited from all of the years of information and data that we have.

Q. Then just, lastly, and you kind of touched on this with Eric's question there at the end, but kind of going back to last year and unfortunately missing those last two races and not getting a chance to celebrate the championship, I mean, for you on a personal note, what has this journey been like for you to know that you have an opportunity to kind of finish a story that in some ways maybe was unfinished for you last year?

BARRY WANSER: I have to say, I don't focus too much on me. Personally I focus on myself to make sure I'm as healthy as possible and stuff, but I'm more focused on what the team achieves. Certainly the whole team, plus us uniquely with the 10 car team, that's what we're trying to do is win another championship.

It's going to be as rewarding to everybody on the team. There's going to be some -- if we're fortunate enough to pull it off, there will be some first-time champions. If we're fortunate to pull it off, there will be some 16-time champions and everything in between.

Either way it's going to be -- if we pull it off, it will be pretty special to all of us.

Q. This question will be for Ron and Barry. Ron, start with you. How many change the quantity and quality of information on a season finale around the last 206 laps of the season?

RON RUZEWSKI: I'm sorry. I didn't catch the question.

Q. All right, again. Start with you, Ron. How many change the quantity and the quality of information on a season finale, speaking about radio around the last 200 laps of the season, or it's like a normal race?

RON RUZEWSKI: You know, you kind of treat it like a normal race. You just go into it with the same level of expectations. There's a lot of unknowns, as we've talked about, with the tires and seeing how the race is going to unfold. This is a different aero package that we're running. We're not exactly sure with this aero package and these tires, how things are going to play out.

So trying to understand all of those things is then going to dictate a bit about how we communicate with each other, how we communicate to the driver, and sort of our approach throughout the race and trying to achieve -- in the case of the 12 car, we need to be aggressive. We need to lead the most laps. We need to basically score points however we can.

We're going to go into it as soon as we have some information, and we're going to be kind of calling audibles through the whole race. Almost like a no-huddle offense. I think with the group we have we can react pretty quickly.

Q. Same question, Barry. Unfortunately, I don't have a reference with Alex radio because the board is not available on the live races for it. Do you have the chance to listen to the radio the entire race?

BARRY WANSER: Yeah, like Ron said, we're going to go into it. You have to do the obvious things. We have to get through the start, and then get into a rhythm and then we'll start making decisions on what we think is going to be best use of the primary and alternate tires and what it takes to stay running up front. If we're not up front, we want to get up front and stay there.

As far as the information on the radio, until it gets late in the race, we're racing to finish as far forward as possible. Like Ron said, if you're forced into desperation, that will happen later in the race.

I don't think anybody wants to get into needing to do anything desperate initially. Even though it's only a 206-lap race, it's still a lot of laps. A lot can happen. There are so many unknowns.

We're going to be racing the track with, like I say, a new car, new tires, alternate tires, and I'm looking forward to it. It's fun because it gives you options.

THE MODERATOR: I'll leave you with this. Barry, you kind of dusted off a little bit of my memory bank here. The last time INDYCAR wrapped up the season on an oval, remember who won that race, Barry?

BARRY WANSER: I do not.

THE MODERATOR: Tony Kanaan in the 10 car at Auto Club Speedway back in the day.

BARRY WANSER: We did finish there, right. Correct. I think that was his first or second race with us, if I remember. That was a memorable win for sure. I didn't remember enough that it was the last oval win.

THE MODERATOR: The problem is you have so many of them, they all kind of --

BARRY WANSER: No, I'm just getting old and forgetful.

THE MODERATOR: Kanaan won the race. The good news for you, Ron, Power won the championship that year, 2014. We'll see what happens. Thanks to both of you for doing this.

BARRY WANSER: Ron can say the same thing this isn't something we're used to doing. We're used to talking on the radio where we can roll our eyes at the driver, whatever, and he can yell back at us. You know, it's not in person until they get out of the car.

THE MODERATOR: Thanks again for doing this. Safe travels to both of you.